Should gays be accepted by America?

[Sahaqiel 1232]

Anyway, no there aren't contradictions in the Bible. You provided a nice long list of apparent contradictions. In each example I see there is only one or two supposedly contradictory verses. People read it OUT OF CONTEXT. You can't just say it contradicts itself if you haven't looked at every passage concerning the topic.

It's impossible to read those things out of context. They contradict themselves, as they state things rather than imply them.

See look, you just contradicted yourself right there.

"There aren't contradictions in the Bible."

"I see there is only one or two supposedly contradicting verses."

Then what are the other ones? "Definitely supposedly" contradicting verses? You used "supposedly" to cushion yourself. They contradict each other, and you contradict yourself.

And I didn't get the fallacies from Wikipedia. I got them from my logic book "Logos" which I used for learning introductory logic this year.

You need it, no offense. You don't need fancy terms to be logical. You just need to know that there has been a fallacy and what makes it one.

And Sahaqiel, why should I care whether I'm being ridiculed? Does matter if someone insults me a few times on earth when I get to spend eternity with God in Heaven? It kind of doesn't matter. And I don't expect you to understand what the burn of the Holy Spirit feels like since, obviously, you've never felt it before.

I asked you why you were persisting. Can't we all get along? Also, I have felt the burn, yes. In all that I do. I feel my heart feeling like it's part of everything, like I'm in sync with the very fabric of existence, and that I think thoughts before they were conceived, that I am everything at once, yesterday, today, and tomorrow. I feel it when I marvel, or when I am engrossed in something I love. It's a wondrous feeling that makes me feel like my perspective encompasses everything. We all have our burns, Lethe. Yours is not special.

And yes, Sahaqiel, pastors and parents lie. They just don't lie a lot. Because they love me, there's no reason to tell me lies about their most firm of beliefs. And no, I don't instantly believe everything they say just because they said it. But almost every time they back it up by Scripture, which is definitive truth, so that's good enough for me.

The Bible is not definitive truth. Please stop saying this is so.

And did you happen to know that the Bible is the most accurate document of it's time? As in, the archaeologists who discover 2000 year old manuscripts and there are non-Christian eyewitness reports of everything in the Bible. Oh yeah, that and somebody recently found the Ark on top of Mt. Arrarat. But either way, I believe it as truth and I've heard God speak to my heart. I can't expect you know what it feels like in any possible way. But that doesn't make it not true. Like I've said a million times already.

Keyword. You BELIEVE it is true. Stop forcing your beliefs down others' throats. this is a debate. You are not equipped with invincibility in a debate just because you say so. Witness accounts of my purchase of a pizza slice yesterday is more accurate than the Bible. There are electronic, paper, and eyewitness accounts. The Bible has eyewitness accounts for things that happened thousands of years ago today?

Looks like Jesus perfected cryogenic technology.

And just because you feel God speaks to your heart, it doesn't mean that's true either. There are disorders that blur peoples' decision making process. You could have a mental disorder that makes you susceptible to any kind of idea and just stick to it forever, and those feelings could be lack of a part of your brain that restrains the production of endorphins and those short bursts could be you about to have a seizure in the form of hallucinating divine communication.

You contradict yourself quite a bit, by the way.

I felt like I needed to plant a deeper hook from a previous statement.

And though only 1 6th of the Bible is Jesus actually saying something, Jesus is God, and God is the one who through the Holy Spirit gave words to human men to write. So, yes, it's all Jesus/God's/the Holy Spirit's words.

But Jesus is not all powerful.

And Jesus is all powerful.

According to your holy texts.

And maybe I made a mistake by calling you guys a pit of vipers and white-washed tombs. That's God's call to make. Thank you, Kitsune.

Yeah.

Only you don't know if God would tell us we're a pit of vipers and white-washed tombs.

Shadow Knight, I respect you greatly, but the simple fact is, Christian and Christ-follower is the same thing. You speak of people who say they're Christians as if they really are Christians. But the truth is that they're not. So Chrisitans is the same as Christ-follower. Christian means "of Christ". And anyone who does not act like they are "of Christ" and has not been transformed by the Holy Spririt is not a real Christian. End of story.

Point is, it became cool to be Christian and it lost its meaning, so there needs to be a new word that is like Christian, only more specific and entails that you would ask what Jesus would have done and act accordingly, thus making you less of a douche.

So much for this country being founded on Christianity. (Cough cough, pagan culture that was destroyed and murdered by Christians, cough cough)

Hey, Sahaqiel, are you all right? 'Cause you've stopped using logic, I just got worried. You know, with you insulting me and my beliefs and all that, it didn't seem like your normal self. And I'm sorry if I've seemed to have that "holier-than-thou" attitude. I've never said even once that I'm better than any other human being. And I don't think I am. I'm a disgusting sinful creature just like everyone else. We all are. The only difference is that me and all the other true Christians are actually trying to please God. We still fail, but God helps us get back on our feet. And I hope you'll come to realize that to. But even still, I'm still praying for you.

Problem is, no matter how much logic I use, you will combat it with something illogical, like you have been forever now. In other words, I will start using logic if you do.

Logic vs. 'I'm-above-logic-'cause-I-said-so-but-I'll-criticize-your-logic-kthnx'. That doesn't make an argument. It feels like I'm talking to a wall that's been pumped full of some sort of depressant that makes it hard for him to hear.

I don't insult your beliefs. I'm tight with your home-boy God. I just can't stand the fan club.

Christ followers are p. cool, though.

I do what's right in my heart, even though that sounds cheesy. If it harms another person, then I can't allow it to happen. Homosexuality harms no one, and the world could use a little more love, so I'm all for it. People like you feel the need to pry into it and thrash around until it's destroyed, even though it never harmed you. So I'm all against that. I like to believe Jesus would think I'm doing well as a filthy, disgusting human, even though I don't follow or associate myself with him.

Incidentally, I'm fairly sure the church was the one that started calling them "perverts" and whatnot, rather than not judging them and letting God do that for you.

Another reason you're Christian in my book, as opposed to Christ Follower.

I'll be praying for you too, by the way.

Yarr, we be gathered here today to save the landlubbers from lack of His Noodly Goodness. Shiver me timbers if there ever were a man who ain't been touched to the soul by the Noodly Appendage. Deliver Lethe Albion, this scallywag, from an eternally hungry death, and be saved from overcooking, yo-ho.

Aye, in the Spaghedeity's name, we pray.

RA-men.

You barrel of monkeys.

Sahaqiel

[Hare Krishna 0]

This is a lost cause i bid you all adieu.

[Chase 390]

Damn, Sahaqiel. Long winded, aren't we?

[Sahaqiel 1232]

My wind is always long, yar, for it blows into my sails from the His Noodly Breath.

Sahaqiel

[Chase 390]

And I with God at my back. Who then, can stop us?

[Lethe Albion 7]

Wow. You really don't get it do you? You haven't felt God at all, have you? You've never felt the blessed assurance that the Lord God is there at your side through thick and thin. I say this with a clear conscience now. You disgust my soul with your lies. I'm done arguing to a pervert like you. And yes, you're soul is utterly and completely perverted and twisted. But that's what's great about God. He can fix that. And I hope you can realize that someday. I've used logic to the best of my ability so far, when and where it applies. But logic does not apply everywhere in Christianity. Oh wait, now where have we heard that before? And you're not tight with God. How often do you read you Bible? How often do you go to Church? You're a fake, a hypocrite. For you to dare, or even dare to think that the Lord God Almighty has not touched my heart with his hand of grace is utterly blasphemous and despicable. The Bible is the only source for definitive truth other than God himself. Jesus us all-powerful as He is God and the Holy Spirit. And this may sound even harsher, but if you've never accepted Jesus Christ as your savior, you've never done a single good in you life. That's right. Not a single one. You are with the Devil. It's either him or God. No in between.

And you know what's great? Is that, to you guys, it looks like I'm being totally illogical and giving up because I realize I'm wrong. But that's great part. I could argue for hours on end. But I'm sick of looking at the rotting filth of you soul manifested in lies against the Almighty. YOU. MAKE. ME. SICK. I don't waste my breath on perverts. But God does. He wastes a lot of his time on perverts like you. And some of them change. But the ones who He's wasted time on are people exactly like YOU. And Sahaqiel.........you DO insult my beliefs: Coward.

God hasn't told you anything, by the way.

So stop stuffing words in God's mouth. If I were God, I'd take you for some kind of false prophet.

All your beliefs are opinions that are based on someone else's tale.You have not experienced it, you only know of it. Calling it definitivefact is more of a lie than anything.

Stop calling me a liar because of your own inadequacies and lack of motivation to find deeper meaning on your own.

Sahaqiel

You dare to say that God did not do what He did. He speaks to my heart, which is something your rotten soul has never experienced. But you'd better pray with all your might that you will one day, cuz' I hear Hell is pretty freakin' hot. That and it's permanent. S

And finally, Homosexuality IS wrong. Think about how humans are made. I mean, why is so natural for a guy to think a girl is hot? BECAUSE WE'RE SUPPOSED TO. It doesn't work the other way around. God says it's wrong, the Bible says it's wrong, and I believe it's wrong. And because God IS truth, His word decides all.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

And you're not tight with God. How often do you read you Bible? How often do you go to Church?

Proof you're raving mad: You do not have to read the Bible or go to church to accept Jesus as your savior, nor do you have to do those things to worship God.

Not like I'm Christian, anyways.

Also, I think I have done good. Therefore, by my standards, I have done good.

You've provided no logic other than that you think your beliefs are the complete and utter truth with no proof and no we can't understand because so on and so forth. You were never arguing. You were just telling us we were wrong and digging your holier-than-thou superiority complex further.

And you know what's great? Is that, to you guys, it looks like I'm being totally illogical and giving up because I realize I'm wrong. But that's great part. I could argue for hours on end. But I'm sick of looking at the rotting filth of you soul manifested in lies against the Almighty. YOU. MAKE. ME. SICK. I don't waste my breath on perverts. But God does. He wastes a lot of his time on perverts like you. And some of them change. But the ones who He's wasted time on are people exactly like YOU. And Sahaqiel.........you DO insult my beliefs: Coward.

No one ever implied you realized you were wrong. I know I didn't, because I know you'll never believe you're wrong. You're just going to persist, whether or not it makes sense, whether or not you listen to what we have to say, whether or not you're being a hypocrite. I'm no coward. I'm accountable for what happens to me. I fear no God or divine retribution, and when I do, it's only because I step into your shoes and try to empathize, which you have probably never done in your life. I don't fear people or what they've done like you. And if I do, I give them a chance. You don't give anyone chances. You have a God Complex. You believe you have the right to judge people, and you fear being judged. To a Christian, judging people is in God's hands. To a Christian, they would turn the other cheek. You do neither. You scream and pout and cover your ears and tell us about how we're the devil and should be ashamed and how we're perverts and how we're going to hell, when that isn't your decision to make.

Who do you think you are? God?

You dare to say that God did not do what He did. He speaks to my heart, which is something your rotten soul has never experienced. But you'd better pray with all your might that you will one day, cuz' I hear Hell is pretty freakin' hot. That and it's permanent. S

I'll see you there.

And finally, Homosexuality IS wrong. Think about how humans are made. I mean, why is so natural for a guy to think a girl is hot? BECAUSE WE'RE SUPPOSED TO. It doesn't work the other way around. God says it's wrong, the Bible says it's wrong, and I believe it's wrong. And because God IS truth, His word decides all.

You sound so... eleven. Alright, answer me this. Think about how humans are made. Why are we not born with cars, computers, or clothes? Because we're not supposed to be born with those things. It doesn't work like that. It's natural we aren't born with them. And if God meant for us to only do what is natural, then you're sinning as we speak.

Also, answer me this. All sins are equal in God's eyes, correct? So even a homosexual can get into heaven so long as they accept Jesus as their lord and savior, and ask for forgiveness. Homosexuality is just as bad as telling your parents you ate your vegetables when you actually fed them to your dog. So why are you making such a big deal about homosexuality when your Bible hardly mentions it? Another Christian aspect of yours; blowing up an insignificant part of the Bible to satisfy your own views.

I'm likewise done with this discussion.

I expected you to be a bit more reasonable.

I never threatened you like you've done me.

But you know what? I still love you. I want you to be happy.

So, I hope you find your Eden, even though you've sinned.

Because if Heaven and God don't exist, you're just going to be remembered as a douche, and you won't have anywhere to materialize to so you can laugh at nonbelievers.

Happy future.

Sahaqiel

[Teto 2609]

YOU. MAKE. ME. SICK. I don't waste my breath on perverts.

You spin the wheel of sin and have landed on 'Wrath', one of the SEVEN DEADLY SINS. Looks like you're going to Hell.

[pheonix561 2080]

You barrel of monkeys.

Sahaqiel

naw, man, its gotta be something fierce. monkeys aren't fierce. well, some are. you have to specify the species sometimes.

also, I'm not too religious, but I like to consider myself jesusy. By which I mean I dont like the whole thing where people are like "hey lets all go to church and ask for forgiveness, then willingly repeat!" It's way cooler to just be cool to people.

man, that paragraph doesnt make a lot of sense, reading it back to myself. I read a poem that explained it pretty well, I wish I could find it again.

you island of walruses.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

Teto, I was totally going to be a bro and underline the rest of that phrase, but I can't edit posts in Serious Discussion.

Oh well, I tried.

In response to Lethe Albion's future response:

Yeah yeah, we're hellbound sinners, etc. etc.

In response to Lethe Albion's future editing of his response in response to my response:

You can try to act all calm and mature, but I don't think anyone's going to believe that.

Sahaqiel

[pheonix561 2080]

Wow. You really don't get it do you? You haven't felt God at all, have you? You've never felt the blessed assurance that the Lord God is there at your side through thick and thin.

So, god has touched you with his blessed assurance, and you make an example of his teachings by berating everyone who "sins."

what a lovely guy.

you hole of army ants.

Fine then, Hare Krishna, this is why, to the best of my understanding. God loves everyone and I'm sure He would like to help everyone and He'd love it if the world was perfect and there was no sin.

OH.

your the kind of christian who thinks god is all good instead of all powerful. I think the rest of us here think god is all powerful instead of all good.

thats probably what this debate is stemming from.

your still a bench of panthers.

[Chase 390]

God can't be both?

[Max 10]

No.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

ie - The Sims

[pheonix561 2080]

if god is all good then he is not all powerful, which means he wants earth to be sin free but he cant make it sin free. which is the kind of god lethe believes in.

if hes all powerful but not all good, then he's the kind of god the rest of us believe in. the kind who could destroy everything if he wanted to, but he wont for whatever reason. alot of us like to think its tolerance.

if hes not all powerful and all good, then hes not "god."

and if he's all powerful AND all good, then we would never have conflict or freedom of thought or anything. this conversation would have never happened.

you container of cthulus.