Should gays be accepted by America?

[Sahaqiel 1232]

I understand what you mean.

But it's still an opinion.

Without thinking that stealing the steak is wrong, you'd just let it go and get a new steak.

Maybe from someone else.

Sure, everything would go to chaos, but without a standard for good or bad, it's not chaos. It's just indifference.

There could be an alien race looking at us and thinking we're the most beautifully pure or sinfully evil things alive for doing things like tying shoes or walking to the store.

But people's views on right and wrong are varied. There is no definitive right or wrong.

Sahaqiel

[Chase 390]

Hmm, I would think everyone would deem rape inappropriate. I'm sure the rapist knows he's doing wrong, but does it for enjoyment or sick pleasure or because he's angry or whatever he does it for. Even the Joker knew he was a bad guy. Don't get me wrong, not all right and wrong is cut and dry. Homosexuality is an example of a gray area. Murder is never okay, under any circumstances. It dons a new name if it's anything else. Self Defense, involuntary manslaughter, etc.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

I seriously know what you're talking about.

No, really. Though I maintain that it's your opinion. I agree with your opinion, but that does not make it definitive or true.

You see what I am saying, right?

Sahaqiel

[Ammonsa 308]

Hmm, I would think everyone would deem rape inappropriate. I'm sure the rapist knows he's doing wrong, but does it for enjoyment or sick pleasure or because he's angry or whatever he does it for. Even the Joker knew he was a bad guy. Don't get me wrong, not all right and wrong is cut and dry. Homosexuality is an example of a gray area. Murder is never okay, under any circumstances. It dons a new name if it's anything else. Self Defense, involuntary manslaughter, etc.

What do you call the murder your Church has done? Because it's in the name of god it's alright? In the most basic form, there is life and unlife. If you kill someone, you are stopping that person from experiencing anything ever again, you are stopping them from feeling. Do you understand how utterly terrible that is?

[Chase 390]

Whoa, peace Ammonsa. I haven't killed anyone. The Church has done despicable things in the past, but they're only human. God cannot be held by the Church, he exists outside of it. The Church knows much of God, but the "much" they know is only .11111111111111111111111111111111111111 etc of who God really is. You can't expect them to be perfect any more than I can expect you to be perfect. It simply isn't possible to do everything God asks, and people slip up. The crimes they committed are a blot on their reputation, but it's time to move on. You wouldn't expect a black man to still be upset with white people because of slavery, right? We have no control over the past. Don't bash the Church, as it is learning and growing just like you.

[Ammonsa 308]

You have to understand this. You don't forgive things like this just because it was a mistake. They should have had the foresight in the first place. And anyway, if they weren't held in contempt then how is anyone going to learn the lesson now. PEOPLE HAVE TO LEARN A LESSON. Figures of authority are held in a higher standard than average people, and if they can't act accordingly then why should people listen to them? And why shouldn't a black man be angry because of slavery? It was disgusting. Being angry is different then seeking revenge, though. Punishing white people now because of what has been done in the past is wrong but black people certainly have a right to be angry.

[Shadowknight 54]

Someone should be held accountable for all of their actions, but they shouldn't be continually punished. If someone spills some milk, they should have to clean it up, but you shouldn't use it as a reason to never let them drink milk again.

Also, Sahaqiel, I appreciate your mentioning of me in your post. I've spent a lot of time thinking about my beliefs, especially the Bible and what it says to be true, and have gone in a different direction than a lot of churches say is the right way. I don't base anything in the old rules set forth in Deuteronomy, because those stopped applying after Jesus' time, and were in fact replaced by the rules that he set forth. The morals are the same as they always were, but the reactions to violating them are different.

If any of you read the New Testament, you'll see that it follows the idea of helping to better one another. If you refuse to associate with someone, or if you simply tell them how terrible they are, because of their sin, you aren't doing anything useful; you're being worse than they are. It's like seeing someone who lives on the streets and yelling at them for being poor. Help them, don't hate them. "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."

Also, it teaches not to condemn anyone, but forgive everyone. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." So, even if someone does something wrong or bad, it doesn't justify shunning them, or criticizing them, hurting them, or, as history has shown to be a favourite of "Christians," killing them. Don't slander someone for being homosexual, and don't cast someone away for something they did in the past.

Love the sinner, hate the sin. Those are words for Christ-followers to live by. Because really, we're all sinners. It's just human nature, original sin.

It's funny how much people like to agree with something or disagree with something without really knowing what that something is. Funny in a terrible, saddening way.

[Lethe Albion 7]

First of all, the Bible IS based on truth. It is a book written by men who were inspired by the holy spirit. It is and will always be the only true source of truth besides God himself. There's simply no other way to put it

And no, right and wrong are NOT opinions. Yes there are gray areas, but they are only temporary. Everything in the end can be sorted out to either right or wrong. In the same way, you can only choose Jesus or Satan. There's no in between. Heaven or Hell, choose one. There's no getting out of eternity. You'll either be eternally dead or eternally alive.

Since when did I say I hated homosexuals or that I condemn them? I said I hate homosexualiTY, as in the act. And yeah, they were minding their own business being perverts.

And so what if a lot of other Christians are hypocrites and burnt homos at the stake? You're committing the fallacy of apriorism. You see a few Christians, or even a lot of Christians doing the wrong thing. Nobody's perfect. That's a point that all Christians readily admit. But just because they did something wrong doesn't mean that every Christian is a horrible person that burns Homos.

Oh yeah, and a Christ-follower and Christian are the same thing. That's.........kind of obvious.

And the reason why I was so harsh in my previous post is because sometimes you need the truth right out there in your face. Jesus did it tons of times in the Bible. He wasn't mean, or rude, he simply spoke the truth. And those Pharisees needed a good dose of the truth (as you do too).

[Teto 2609]

Lethe talks a lot but he doesn't say much.

[Max 10]

First of all, the Bible IS based on truth. It is a book written by men who were inspired by the holy spirit. It is and will always be the only true source of truth besides God himself. There's simply no other way to put it

And no, right and wrong are NOT opinions. Yes there are gray areas, but they are only temporary. Everything in the end can be sorted out to either right or wrong. In the same way, you can only choose Jesus or Satan. There's no in between. Heaven or Hell, choose one. There's no getting out of eternity. You'll either be eternally dead or eternally alive.

Since when did I say I hated homosexuals or that I condemn them? I said I hate homosexualiTY, as in the act. And yeah, they were minding their own business being perverts.

And so what if a lot of other Christians are hypocrites and burnt homos at the stake? You're committing the fallacy of apriorism. You see a few Christians, or even a lot of Christians doing the wrong thing. Nobody's perfect. That's a point that all Christians readily admit. But just because they did something wrong doesn't mean that every Christian is a horrible person that burns Homos.

Oh yeah, and a Christ-follower and Christian are the same thing. That's.........kind of obvious.

And the reason why I was so harsh in my previous post is because sometimes you need the truth right out there in your face. Jesus did it tons of times in the Bible. He wasn't mean, or rude, he simply spoke the truth. And those Pharisees needed a good dose of the truth (as you do too).

Still laughing. I needed that. Please, continue.

[pheonix561 2080]

This country was built upon the Christian faith

George Washington: "The United States is in no sense founded upon

Christian Doctrine"

pwn'd.

come oooooooon. frankly I think the fact that this country was founded on the separation of church and state is the most obnoxious part of the fact that gay marriage isn't legal.

You pit of vipers.

you pile of lions.

[Max 10]

"Lighthouses are more useful than churches." -Benjamin Franklin

"This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it!" -John Adams

"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man." -Thomas Jefferson

[Lethe Albion 7]

Ah, but you speak of the founders of the USA, not North America. The Pilgrims, who were the first ones here, were devout Christians. And as time has progressed, our leaders have gradually turned away from our Christian roots.

Oh, and since you all care so much about logic, I might mention to you that you have been frequently committing the fallacy of ipse dixit. In Latin it means "he said so". So, just because somebody says something doesn't make it true. It's funny, though, you guys were actually starting to sound smart for a second or two. I'm greatly disappointed.

.

[Hare Krishna 0]

I have no problem with gays getting married

then again I am an athiest so my opinion is nil to most lol.

[Lethe Albion 7]

I have no problem with gays getting married

then again I am an athiest so my opinion is nil to most lol.

But do you have a problem with people being gay at all? SInce I DO have a problem with that, it kind of makes sense to not agree with gay marriage either