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Where do the 2D games fit in the timeline?


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#11 vaatidorf

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 09:36 PM

I noted that the 1998 miyamto wasnt what i was going by in my last post ans for TDR.The Dark Realm is the Sacred Realm turned evil by Ganon's dark magic, and ganon and ganondorf are one person but there are two different ganons, one in each timeline which is explained in the multiple ganon theory which is what i think your talking about. And miyamto as well as Eiji Anoumo confirmed that there are two diffrent timeline split in OOT and that TWW is in a totally different timeline than LOZ. And A link to the past could come after Z2 as ganon is most likely revived at the end of that game. And Eiji Anoumo stated that two or more times later on TP takes place several centuries later from OOT. And the races are not extint in ALLTP like zoras. the river zoras are totally different from the good ocean zoras, the kokiri are only mentioned in OOT and most likely evolved by ALLTP like in TWW, and the gorons just dont appear like there are only 4 in TWW but several in PH and SP. or how only 7 are in MC but several in FSA. And to answer your other Question.

1The Triforce is shown in OOT to have split an is shown in every game to be embroided into Zelda, Ganondorf, and Link's hand. in ALLTP its just the essence of the triforce.

2.In OOT the Temple of time and lost woods are shown to be completely far apart from one another and TP could very well go last since is is shown that the geograpy of the land has changed.

3. See explanation

Sources:1.Many zelda fan sites
2.Both Zelda wikis


LOL ZELDA WIKIS!!! And what fan sites are you using as sources? I've been to a great deal of them, so I can assess their accuracy.

1. Umm..the entire point of the IW mentioned in ALTTP is that there was a war to find the triforce in the SR. In ALTTP, we obviously see the entire thing, and the triforce can only grant a wish when all three pieces are united. OOT screwed the mythos up.

2. What about the final line of ALTTP, "And the Master Sword sleeps again...forever"? I know it says the something similar in the Japanese version, so that means that there can't be any MS games after ALTTP. The oracles don't count since the MS in those games is not the real one. And the geogrphy really doesn't mean anything. As for the lost woods thing, FSA actually shows us the origins of the ALTTP lost woods. It was a forest of light until Ganon II came in and infected it with his evil, turning it into the lost woods.

Oh. You got the basis of the multiple Ganon theory wrong. There is the one from OOT, who exists on both timelines, and dies in both of them. There is another Ganondorf who takes over at some point after he died. He's the one who stole the trident in FSA and became the new Ganon. The goron argument with TMC and FSA doesn't work anywhere, and PH and ST are not a fair comparison. PH takes place in another world, and ST takes place in a new land. As of TWW, only the Hylian gorons are dwindling. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be saying that the Adult Link events of OOT occur on both timelines. That CANNOT work out. The reason for that is because Zelda sent Link back to his childhood at the end of OOT so the Adult Link portion would never happen. In fact, in the TP split timeline interview, Aonuma even mentioned that Ganon was arrested because the king on the CT was informed of Ganon's intentions, thus the entrance to the SR never opened (don't try to explain what happened in the execution scene. Many of us are still trying to figure that one out). Or at least it wasn't opened until the IW. And if there are so many Links between MM and TP, how come only one prvious Link is mentioned in TP? Another thing is while there are still quite a few Hylians alive in TP, there are very few in ALTTP since they are dying out by that point.

#12 Ventelus

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 11:13 PM

LOL ZELDA WIKIS!!! And what fan sites are you using as sources? I've been to a great deal of them, so I can assess their accuracy.

1. Umm..the entire point of the IW mentioned in ALTTP is that there was a war to find the triforce in the SR. In ALTTP, we obviously see the entire thing, and the triforce can only grant a wish when all three pieces are united. OOT screwed the mythos up.

2. What about the final line of ALTTP, "And the Master Sword sleeps again...forever"? I know it says the something similar in the Japanese version, so that means that there can't be any MS games after ALTTP. The oracles don't count since the MS in those games is not the real one. And the geogrphy really doesn't mean anything. As for the lost woods thing, FSA actually shows us the origins of the ALTTP lost woods. It was a forest of light until Ganon II came in and infected it with his evil, turning it into the lost woods.

Oh. You got the basis of the multiple Ganon theory wrong. There is the one from OOT, who exists on both timelines, and dies in both of them. There is another Ganondorf who takes over at some point after he died. He's the one who stole the trident in FSA and became the new Ganon. The goron argument with TMC and FSA doesn't work anywhere, and PH and ST are not a fair comparison. PH takes place in another world, and ST takes place in a new land. As of TWW, only the Hylian gorons are dwindling. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be saying that the Adult Link events of OOT occur on both timelines. That CANNOT work out. The reason for that is because Zelda sent Link back to his childhood at the end of OOT so the Adult Link portion would never happen. In fact, in the TP split timeline interview, Aonuma even mentioned that Ganon was arrested because the king on the CT was informed of Ganon's intentions, thus the entrance to the SR never opened (don't try to explain what happened in the execution scene. Many of us are still trying to figure that one out). Or at least it wasn't opened until the IW. And if there are so many Links between MM and TP, how come only one prvious Link is mentioned in TP? Another thing is while there are still quite a few Hylians alive in TP, there are very few in ALTTP since they are dying out by that point.


1. the war was when ganon entered the sacred realm in the child timeline and during that time the triforce was still together.

2.As far as im concerned the Master Sword will never sleep forever as long as ganon still lives just like how at the end of MC it says links first adventure ends it is probably only for that generation. and im almost positive it doesnt say forever in the japanese version, and geography does play a big role in it cause it shows how much the world has changed since the original land formation in OOT.

I only believe in the first part of the Multiple ganon theory because there is no in game evidence that really would prove the two ganons in the child timeline, other than in FSA where it could be the same ganon because it is unlikely the trident is equal enough in power to the triforce to turn ganon into what the triforce did and a man is born in the gerudo tribe every 100 years where FSA takes centuries after OOT so it is unlikely the same man was born twice. and im not confusing the timelines, and the king was only just informed as ganondorf opended the door to the sacred realm which is how the war talked of in ALTTP started.actually only 3 hylians are pointed out in TP Telma, Link, and Zelda indicated by the fact that they are the only three people in the game with pointed ears and in ALTTP many more hylians still exist. And it only talks of the OOT Link because it is the main link and the ALTTP link has nothing to do with the story.and in both of the miyamoto orders it states LOZ-Z2-ALTTP are all together and come directly after OOT and MM so it would mean that TP would have to go somewhere after LOZ, Z2 and ALTTP or else it would go before OOC which DEFINATELY WOULD NOT WORK.

#13 vaatidorf

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 11:18 AM

1. the war was when ganon entered the sacred realm in the child timeline and during that time the triforce was still together.

2.As far as im concerned the Master Sword will never sleep forever as long as ganon still lives just like how at the end of MC it says links first adventure ends it is probably only for that generation. and im almost positive it doesnt say forever in the japanese version, and geography does play a big role in it cause it shows how much the world has changed since the original land formation in OOT.

I only believe in the first part of the Multiple ganon theory because there is no in game evidence that really would prove the two ganons in the child timeline, other than in FSA where it could be the same ganon because it is unlikely the trident is equal enough in power to the triforce to turn ganon into what the triforce did and a man is born in the gerudo tribe every 100 years where FSA takes centuries after OOT so it is unlikely the same man was born twice. and im not confusing the timelines, and the king was only just informed as ganondorf opended the door to the sacred realm which is how the war talked of in ALTTP started.actually only 3 hylians are pointed out in TP Telma, Link, and Zelda indicated by the fact that they are the only three people in the game with pointed ears and in ALTTP many more hylians still exist. And it only talks of the OOT Link because it is the main link and the ALTTP link has nothing to do with the story.and in both of the miyamoto orders it states LOZ-Z2-ALTTP are all together and come directly after OOT and MM so it would mean that TP would have to go somewhere after LOZ, Z2 and ALTTP or else it would go before OOC which DEFINATELY WOULD NOT WORK.


1. And yet in your theory, the Triforce is in Hyrule before LOZ, as a former king hid the ToC centuries earlier, is reunited and in the possession of the royal family at the end of AOL and in OOX, and is sent back to the SR for ALTTP. Wouldn't it be easier to say that the Triforce was originally in the SR and then taken to Hyrule at the end of ALTTP with its new master( ALTTP Link)?

2. Actually, I had the same doubt about that line at one point. I asked as few people on one of the other fan sites about the MS line at the very end the Japanese version of ALTTP, and all of them said that the line is basically the same. One of them is someone who is from Japan.

As for the FSA Ganon thing, the only evidence of a reincarnation of OOT Ganon were a few lines from the US version of FSA which mentioned something about a spirit in the trident, and the "ancient demon reborn" line. Those were mistranslations. The Japanese explanations are as follows:

In the pyramid: Born from darkness, the demon's evil device, the trident (Japanese)
Evil...spirit of magic trident.(NOA)

end: King of Darkness… The man who took the Trident, the demon's evil device (ja-ki) revived from ancient times!!(Japanese)
King of Darkness, ancient demon reborn. The wielder of the trident!!(NOA)

Both versions do imply that the trident did have the power to corrupt those who had it. Why else would the Zuna and Gerudo seal it away?

Your IW explanation also has a few flaws in it. Games like OOT, TP, and FSA do seem to build up to the IW, which was just one battle that occurred after Ganon won the struggle to get to the Triforce. And if the Ganons in LOZ, ALTTP, and TP are the same and they occur in that order, how would that work since Ganon dies in all of those. He stole the ToP in LOZ and was destroyed, he was sealed during the IW and had the complete Triforce in ALTTP. He died there and the DW disappeared. Those Ganons were permanently turned into demons, while the one in TP still had a human form and only one piece of the triforce. He died and mentioned that the fight was not over, it had only begun.

#14 Ventelus

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 08:37 PM

1. And yet in your theory, the Triforce is in Hyrule before LOZ, as a former king hid the ToC centuries earlier, is reunited and in the possession of the royal family at the end of AOL and in OOX, and is sent back to the SR for ALTTP. Wouldn't it be easier to say that the Triforce was originally in the SR and then taken to Hyrule at the end of ALTTP with its new master( ALTTP Link)?

2. Actually, I had the same doubt about that line at one point. I asked as few people on one of the other fan sites about the MS line at the very end the Japanese version of ALTTP, and all of them said that the line is basically the same. One of them is someone who is from Japan.

As for the FSA Ganon thing, the only evidence of a reincarnation of OOT Ganon were a few lines from the US version of FSA which mentioned something about a spirit in the trident, and the "ancient demon reborn" line. Those were mistranslations. The Japanese explanations are as follows:

In the pyramid: Born from darkness, the demon's evil device, the trident (Japanese)
Evil...spirit of magic trident.(NOA)

end: King of Darkness… The man who took the Trident, the demon's evil device (ja-ki) revived from ancient times!!(Japanese)
King of Darkness, ancient demon reborn. The wielder of the trident!!(NOA)

Both versions do imply that the trident did have the power to corrupt those who had it. Why else would the Zuna and Gerudo seal it away?

Your IW explanation also has a few flaws in it. Games like OOT, TP, and FSA do seem to build up to the IW, which was just one battle that occurred after Ganon won the struggle to get to the Triforce. And if the Ganons in LOZ, ALTTP, and TP are the same and they occur in that order, how would that work since Ganon dies in all of those. He stole the ToP in LOZ and was destroyed, he was sealed during the IW and had the complete Triforce in ALTTP. He died there and the DW disappeared. Those Ganons were permanently turned into demons, while the one in TP still had a human form and only one piece of the triforce. He died and mentioned that the fight was not over, it had only begun.


1.in OOT the triforce is never tooken in the child timeline and splits during the Imprisoning War after they seal Ganon. In the Loz intro the triforce of courage is with link and the triforce of power is with ganon and the triforce of wisdom is split and link has to reunite the triforce of wisdom and get ganons triforce of power which he does at the end and the triforce is reunited AoL has nothing to do with the triforce other than at the last palace.

2.it might say it in the japanese version but its probobly just talking about that link generation like in TMC

3. reborn as in revived. The Zuna and Gerudo sealed it up because it did have great power as it is the trident the original ganon used if there is another ganon but miyamoto never did agree with that part of the multiple ganon theory but did with the first part when he agreed about the split timeline theory amd the reason i dont believe the second part is mainly because Ganon in FSA is hinted through most of the game to have had a grudge against link but if it was a new ganon he wouldnt even know who link is plus it is is revealed that ganon was controling vaati all along but FSA takes place let alone centuries after TMC when Vaati was introduced . he didnt have the complete triforce it was reunited at the end of LoZ and he was trying to get it back. and the triforce has the power to revive ganon since he is alive in loz and alttp no matter which way they go but it would make more since if ALTTP went after LOZ mainly because of the LOZ intro and the fact that for ganon to be revived in AOL he needed link to die and in the end Dark Link dies so ganon was most likely revived in the Dark World in ALTTP. and i do believe that it was agreed with by either miyamoto or eiji anoumo that ganon only chose to be in that form but when he is struck with the execution sword the sages turned him into his human form again. I also would just like to state that the I think the Oracles would go between ALTTP and LA because in the maual it states hes coming back from another adventure, is on the same ship in the intro to LA as the ship at the end of A Linked Oracles game, and the Final boss in ALTTP is ganon who is ultimatly destroyed but revived by twinrova in the oracles and Delphi the Final boss in LA takes the form of and uses the moves of the ganon from the oracles plus in the oracles the triforce calls to link who presumably already know what the triforce is.

#15 vaatidorf

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 01:36 PM

I noted that the 1998 miyamto wasnt what i was going by in my last post ans for TDR.The Dark Realm is the Sacred Realm turned evil by Ganon's dark magic, and ganon and ganondorf are one person but there are two different ganons, one in each timeline which is explained in the multiple ganon theory which is what i think your talking about. And miyamto as well as Eiji Anoumo confirmed that there are two diffrent timeline split in OOT and that TWW is in a totally different timeline than LOZ. And A link to the past could come after Z2 as ganon is most likely revived at the end of that game. And Eiji Anoumo stated that two or more times later on TP takes place several centuries later from OOT. And the races are not extint in ALLTP like zoras. the river zoras are totally different from the good ocean zoras, the kokiri are only mentioned in OOT and most likely evolved by ALLTP like in TWW, and the gorons just dont appear like there are only 4 in TWW but several in PH and SP. or how only 7 are in MC but several in FSA. And to answer your other Question.

1The Triforce is shown in OOT to have split an is shown in every game to be embroided into Zelda, Ganondorf, and Link's hand. in ALLTP its just the essence of the triforce.

2.In OOT the Temple of time and lost woods are shown to be completely far apart from one another and TP could very well go last since is is shown that the geograpy of the land has changed.

3. See explanation



1. Then explain the three floating pieces in front of Link at the end of ALTTP, as well as the point of the game, which was to get the triforce from Ganon. Link even had the complete triforce in his hand during that seen, and the entire triforce is in Hyrule in the oracles. Explain that one. Since IW/ALTTP Ganon won it in the IW by killing the group that was with him, he was the master of the triforce. ALTTP even says that the triforce is bound to its master as long as that person is alive. And OOT triforce mythos are a complete mess.

2. As I've said before, it's a different lost woods. FSA actually shows us the origins of the ALTTP lost woods, just like it shows the origins of Trident Ganon (LOZ Ganon is also Trident Ganon. He does have it in the only true LOZ remake and in official artwork from the ALTTP era). And TP can't go at the end, but I'm saving that for the end of this post.


Your Goron arguement is also very weak. I'll admit that the situation in TMC is a mess, but PH and ST are a different story. PH occurs in another world, and ST occurs in a different land with their own gorons.

Aonuma did say that TP is a century after OOT. I will admit that centuries also works since in Japanese, the same word is used for century and centuries, but that is irrelevant. It is implied that TP takes place in an early era of the Zelda universe. That is seen in Ganon's dying words, in which he doesn't come to terms with his death and mentions that the "history of light and shadow will be written in blood", unlike his death in TWW. While the US translation of the end of TP is pretty vague, the Japanese version is very clear at this point.

"Do not think everything ends with this...
Think of this as the beginning of a bloodsmeared history of light and darkness!"

How could TP be at the end if Ganon says that his story, as well as the bloody history of Hyrule, was just beginning. The removed parts of TP's ending also help with that as it foreshadows FSA. I'd recommend reading some of Legends Alliance's translations before we continue with this argument.

Anyone else can jump into this at any time. Here's a second argument for this: are the FS games pre ALTTP, pre LOZ, or after both?

#16 Ventelus

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 11:02 PM

1. Then explain the three floating pieces in front of Link at the end of ALTTP, as well as the point of the game, which was to get the triforce from Ganon. Link even had the complete triforce in his hand during that seen, and the entire triforce is in Hyrule in the oracles. Explain that one. Since IW/ALTTP Ganon won it in the IW by killing the group that was with him, he was the master of the triforce. ALTTP even says that the triforce is bound to its master as long as that person is alive. And OOT triforce mythos are a complete mess.

2. As I've said before, it's a different lost woods. FSA actually shows us the origins of the ALTTP lost woods, just like it shows the origins of Trident Ganon (LOZ Ganon is also Trident Ganon. He does have it in the only true LOZ remake and in official artwork from the ALTTP era). And TP can't go at the end, but I'm saving that for the end of this post.

Your Goron arguement is also very weak. I'll admit that the situation in TMC is a mess, but PH and ST are a different story. PH occurs in another world, and ST occurs in a different land with their own gorons.

Aonuma did say that TP is a century after OOT. I will admit that centuries also works since in Japanese, the same word is used for century and centuries, but that is irrelevant. It is implied that TP takes place in an early era of the Zelda universe. That is seen in Ganon's dying words, in which he doesn't come to terms with his death and mentions that the "history of light and shadow will be written in blood", unlike his death in TWW. While the US translation of the end of TP is pretty vague, the Japanese version is very clear at this point.

"Do not think everything ends with this...
Think of this as the beginning of a bloodsmeared history of light and darkness!"

How could TP be at the end if Ganon says that his story, as well as the bloody history of Hyrule, was just beginning. The removed parts of TP's ending also help with that as it foreshadows FSA. I'd recommend reading some of Legends Alliance's translations before we continue with this argument.

Anyone else can jump into this at any time. Here's a second argument for this: are the FS games pre ALTTP, pre LOZ, or after both?


1.Ganon did not win the IW he was sealed into the sacred realm because he entered the holy lands without special permission. Shown in the backstory in ALTTP and in the Nintendo official artwork of the IW showing the sages finally sealing Ganon into the Sacred Realm through the Triforce.The Triforce is only bound to the person who holds it if he has a pure heart but ganon was corrupted and when he was the first to find it in either timeline it splits and is shown in LoZ to be with the three as it is in TWW, Ganon is only bound to the triforce of power.

2. and as ive said before there is most likely only one ganon but he is reborn or revived because of the points i stated in the last post. of him holding a grudge on link and shown to have been using vaati all along. LOZ Ganon is same ganon from OOT due to miyamoto order(s) and the fact that he escapes from the SR/DW (if there even is another ganon that is)

ST is in the same land they just set out to find new land because the goddesses flooded the entire world so there are no original gorons they had to be from the original hyrule and then migrated over above land to new Hyrule.

If that were true about TP then it would mess up the entire child timeline because then how would he have the triforce, why does he strive to be king of hyrule, why is he in Arbiter Grounds being executed. plus the Seven sages are shown to be alive in every game there in but in TP Ganondorf kills the water sage. if it were the beginning then that would mean it would go even beyond OOT in which Zelda, Ganondorf, nor Link would know a thing of the Triforce. And to be fair he doesnt have a quote when he dies in TWW he is impaled in the head turned to stone and then drowned with the rest of hyrule. And it would also make more sense for it to go to the end due to the fact it is the only game with the Twili Race in every other game they are said to be Dark Link or as TP refers to them as Dark Interlopers.

And i would like to be the first to say that FS series would most likely go after both since it is shown that ganon is not sealed in the SR and in LOZ he just escaped and in ALTTP he is still in there. Plus the Geography is bascially just backwards from OOT. and in LOZ and ALTTP it is fairly the same.

#17 vaatidorf

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 09:29 AM

1.Ganon did not win the IW he was sealed into the sacred realm because he entered the holy lands without special permission. Shown in the backstory in ALTTP and in the Nintendo official artwork of the IW showing the sages finally sealing Ganon into the Sacred Realm through the Triforce.The Triforce is only bound to the person who holds it if he has a pure heart but ganon was corrupted and when he was the first to find it in either timeline it splits and is shown in LoZ to be with the three as it is in TWW, Ganon is only bound to the triforce of power.


But Ganon did make it to the Triforce in the IW. That's what corrupted him, and turned the SR into the DW. When he touched the Triforce, he was unable to return to the world of light. The DW was sealed because Ganon's forces were closing in on Hyrule Castle, and the sages of the time didn't have the time to find the MS and someone who can wield it. And what are you basing your IW info off of? I'm basing it off of the original Japanese manual.

And that triforce rule only applies to OOT, which messed up a lot of Zelda mythos. ALTTP clearly states that the Triforce cannot distinguish between good and evil since it isn't a god. It grants wishes to all, and it is bound to the first person who touches it. It doesn't matter if they have a pure heart or not. And in LOZ, that is a different story since the ToC was hidden some time before it and the other two pieces were kept in Hyrule. Ganon stole the ToP upon his return and destroyed most of Hyrule right after that, which is why most of AOL occurs north of the area we usually see in the games.

2. and as ive said before there is most likely only one ganon but he is reborn or revived because of the points i stated in the last post. of him holding a grudge on link and shown to have been using vaati all along. LOZ Ganon is same ganon from OOT due to miyamoto order(s) and the fact that he escapes from the SR/DW (if there even is another ganon that is)


2.I'll give you the first part of that, but it really doesn't mean anything. LOZ Ganon did not escape from the DW. In fact, most of the problems we have with placing LOZ is because we don't know how Ganon returned. I did ask about what you brought up about LOZ Ganon escaping from the DW on other sites, but they mentioned that the only source for that is the NOA VC description.

ST is in the same land they just set out to find new land because the goddesses flooded the entire world so there are no original gorons they had to be from the original hyrule and then migrated over above land to new Hyrule.


It isn't the same land since the original land was destroyed by the king's wish in TWW. While the migrating part would work, it would be against the nature of the gorons. Besides, how do you explain the gorons in the oracles?

If that were true about TP then it would mess up the entire child timeline because then how would he have the triforce, why does he strive to be king of hyrule, why is he in Arbiter Grounds being executed. plus the Seven sages are shown to be alive in every game there in but in TP Ganondorf kills the water sage. if it were the beginning then that would mean it would go even beyond OOT in which Zelda, Ganondorf, nor Link would know a thing of the Triforce. And to be fair he doesnt have a quote when he dies in TWW he is impaled in the head turned to stone and then drowned with the rest of hyrule.


If it wasn't true, why did the end of TP establish that it was only the beginning? For the triforce problem in TP, we simply do not know how Ganon got the ToP. Not even Ganon knew he had the ToP. Do you honestly think the TP sages would be able to capture Ganon so easily if he knew he had the ToP? The game calls it a "divine prank" in both versions, but make of that what you will. And when are the sages shown? New sages are awakened in OOT, possibly replacing the TP sages since Ganon probably killed all of them on the AT. The only other time they are actually seen is TP. FSA and ALTTP feature their descendants. And Ganon did have a dying quote in TWW, "the wind. it is blowing". Since the wind brought death to his people, Ganon probably said that since he knew his time was over on the AT. Not the case on the CT.

Another thing to support the idea that TP is early in the CT is that Ganon doesn't recognize Link's tunic or the Master Sword. If this was the Ganon who was defeated by Links with the MS in the past, why would he only call the MS an "impressive looking blade, but nothing more"? Not to mention the fact that he was sealed in the Twilight Realm many years after OOT, as stated by Aonuma, and he remained there until the events of TP.

And it would also make more sense for it to go to the end due to the fact it is the only game with the Twili Race in every other game they are said to be Dark Link or as TP refers to them as Dark Interlopers. And i would like to be the first to say that FS series would most likely go after both since it is shown that ganon is not sealed in the SR and in LOZ he just escaped and in ALTTP he is still in there. Plus the Geography is bascially just backwards from OOT. and in LOZ and ALTTP it is fairly the same.


*bangs head on keyboard*

Why do I have to run into something like this on nearly every site I've been to? The Twili have never been confirmed to have any connection with the Dark Links, which are said to be created by the Dark Mirror. The Dark Tribe mentioned in FSA, which might have been another part of the interloper tribe, were the ones sealed there.

And that's pretty much where I put FSS. Either at the end of my timeline or between ALTTP and LOZ.

As I recommended in my last post, looking at some of LA's translations would be helpful for this.

#18 Ventelus

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 11:35 PM

But Ganon did make it to the Triforce in the IW. That's what corrupted him, and turned the SR into the DW. When he touched the Triforce, he was unable to return to the world of light. The DW was sealed because Ganon's forces were closing in on Hyrule Castle, and the sages of the time didn't have the time to find the MS and someone who can wield it. And what are you basing your IW info off of? I'm basing it off of the original Japanese manual.

And that triforce rule only applies to OOT, which messed up a lot of Zelda mythos. ALTTP clearly states that the Triforce cannot distinguish between good and evil since it isn't a god. It grants wishes to all, and it is bound to the first person who touches it. It doesn't matter if they have a pure heart or not. And in LOZ, that is a different story since the ToC was hidden some time before it and the other two pieces were kept in Hyrule. Ganon stole the ToP upon his return and destroyed most of Hyrule right after that, which is why most of AOL occurs north of the area we usually see in the games.



2.I'll give you the first part of that, but it really doesn't mean anything. LOZ Ganon did not escape from the DW. In fact, most of the problems we have with placing LOZ is because we don't know how Ganon returned. I did ask about what you brought up about LOZ Ganon escaping from the DW on other sites, but they mentioned that the only source for that is the NOA VC description.



It isn't the same land since the original land was destroyed by the king's wish in TWW. While the migrating part would work, it would be against the nature of the gorons. Besides, how do you explain the gorons in the oracles?



If it wasn't true, why did the end of TP establish that it was only the beginning? For the triforce problem in TP, we simply do not know how Ganon got the ToP. Not even Ganon knew he had the ToP. Do you honestly think the TP sages would be able to capture Ganon so easily if he knew he had the ToP? The game calls it a "divine prank" in both versions, but make of that what you will. And when are the sages shown? New sages are awakened in OOT, possibly replacing the TP sages since Ganon probably killed all of them on the AT. The only other time they are actually seen is TP. FSA and ALTTP feature their descendants. And Ganon did have a dying quote in TWW, "the wind. it is blowing". Since the wind brought death to his people, Ganon probably said that since he knew his time was over on the AT. Not the case on the CT.

Another thing to support the idea that TP is early in the CT is that Ganon doesn't recognize Link's tunic or the Master Sword. If this was the Ganon who was defeated by Links with the MS in the past, why would he only call the MS an "impressive looking blade, but nothing more"? Not to mention the fact that he was sealed in the Twilight Realm many years after OOT, as stated by Aonuma, and he remained there until the events of TP.



*bangs head on keyboard*

Why do I have to run into something like this on nearly every site I've been to? The Twili have never been confirmed to have any connection with the Dark Links, which are said to be created by the Dark Mirror. The Dark Tribe mentioned in FSA, which might have been another part of the interloper tribe, were the ones sealed there.

And that's pretty much where I put FSS. Either at the end of my timeline or between ALTTP and LOZ.

As I recommended in my last post, looking at some of LA's translations would be helpful for this.


1. Ganon didnt touch the triforce otherwise the sages wouldnt have been able to seal him into the realm because it would have either been bound to ganon or split. and it is shown in the backstory and Nintendo Artwork that the sacred realm was still Light when ganon got sealed by the sages it wasnt until he broke free from the seal that the SR was turned into the DW and the split triforce rule doesnt apply to just OOT just because it is only mentioned in OOt it applys to the triforce in general. Im basing mine of the story of the IW found on the fan sites and (i know) the wikis, plus the artwork and backstories.

in LoZ the ToC is with Link and in AoL it isnt because Ganon destroyed the land in LoZ (which i dont think he did) its because the same link is in a different hyrule with a different zelda said in the AoL intro

2.The NOA VC description? Uhhhhhh no i got it from the LoZ intro in the Collectors addition which makes you wait awhile to see it but you just gotta wait awhile on the title screen and itll come up.

3.The Gods Flooded the Earth and it became the great sea and in the great sea the gorons from the original hyrule who lived on tall mountains came to be the last race left from hyrule and then migrated oversea to new islands and then reproduced their race. The oracles take place across the world on the opposite end of the world from hyrule so they have their own gorons.

4. It was a metaphor to state that ganondorfs story has not ended he will return. In the Light Spirits Backstory the Interlopers tried to get the triforce but instead only sealed themselves into it just as ganondorf did when he tried to get it and that realm is the SR/ DW by that point and eventually the Interlopers turned into the Twilight race and the DW into the TR. The Sages are shown in the backstory of Arbiter Grounds when they free Ganon from the TR to execute him but before they do just as ganondorf is struck with the execution sword he uses the ToP to break free from the chains and kill the water sage. And the reason for his quote difference in the timelines is because in the AT hyrule is gone, his race is gone and with that he is gone but in the CT hyrule is still there and his race is still there so he knows hell still be there.

But Anoumo stated it went after OOT so ganondorf did in fact know who Link is he just calls his blade that as a mock to say he wont be defeated this time. and Anoumos statement means nothing because he stated he was sealed there centuries after OOT and by then all the other games events could have taken place by then

5. And in the light spirits story it wasnt just the dark links it was the entire tribe and the dark mirror from FSA is the same one from TP because the dark mirror was the Interlopers only way out of the DW but Ganon was controlling them at the time and at the end of FSA the mirror is shattered like it is in the begginning of TP.

6. MY statement on the FSS stands where it is place before TP but after all the other games basically because Ganon is sealed at the end of the game, the dark mirror is shattered and is the same dark mirror from TP, and at the end Zelda is seen going into the trifroces room placement where she checks on its status since the SR was turned into the DW in ALTTP and then shortly after FSA turned into the TR.
Posted Image too much typing.

#19 vaatidorf

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 09:35 AM

1. Ganon didnt touch the triforce otherwise the sages wouldnt have been able to seal him into the realm because it would have either been bound to ganon or split. and it is shown in the backstory and Nintendo Artwork that the sacred realm was still Light when ganon got sealed by the sages it wasnt until he broke free from the seal that the SR was turned into the DW and the split triforce rule doesnt apply to just OOT just because it is only mentioned in OOt it applys to the triforce in general. Im basing mine of the story of the IW found on the fan sites and (i know) the wikis, plus the artwork and backstories.

in LoZ the ToC is with Link and in AoL it isnt because Ganon destroyed the land in LoZ (which i dont think he did) its because the same link is in a different hyrule with a different zelda said in the AoL intro

2.The NOA VC description? Uhhhhhh no i got it from the LoZ intro in the Collectors addition which makes you wait awhile to see it but you just gotta wait awhile on the title screen and itll come up.


But that Triforce rule doesn't apply to any game before OOT as the entire thing was said to have been used by an ancient king that was mentioned in AOL. And your IW sources aren't that reliable, especially if they are U.S. sources. Just come here and read the original Japanese manual about the IW, or Seal War in Japan. I'd recommend reading the manual comparisons for the first three games.


Read the manual translation for AOL. It clearly says that an ancient king hid the ToC as he knew that it would cause disaster if an evil person got to it. And in the LOZ manual, it states that Ganon invaded Hyrule and stole the ToP during that invasion.


Guess what? I used to have the collectors' edition and saw that screen. It said no such thing! It's the same in the GBA and VC version intros. All it says it that Ganon stole the ToP, Zelda split the ToW, and that Link had to find them. It's basically the same as the original version, except the translation was cleaned up.

3.The Gods Flooded the Earth and it became the great sea and in the great sea the gorons from the original hyrule who lived on tall mountains came to be the last race left from hyrule and then migrated oversea to new islands and then reproduced their race. The oracles take place across the world on the opposite end of the world from hyrule so they have their own gorons.


If the lands in the oracles can have their own gorons, why can't ST Hyrule? The gorons were probably there before the flood, anyway.


4. It was a metaphor to state that ganondorfs story has not ended he will return. In the Light Spirits Backstory the Interlopers tried to get the triforce but instead only sealed themselves into it just as ganondorf did when he tried to get it and that realm is the SR/ DW by that point and eventually the Interlopers turned into the Twilight race and the DW into the TR. The Sages are shown in the backstory of Arbiter Grounds when they free Ganon from the TR to execute him but before they do just as ganondorf is struck with the execution sword he uses the ToP to break free from the chains and kill the water sage. And the reason for his quote difference in the timelines is because in the AT hyrule is gone, his race is gone and with that he is gone but in the CT hyrule is still there and his race is still there so he knows hell still be there.

But Anoumo stated it went after OOT so ganondorf did in fact know who Link is he just calls his blade that as a mock to say he wont be defeated this time. and Anoumos statement means nothing because he stated he was sealed there centuries after OOT and by then all the other games events could have taken place by then


Um...in TWW, Ganon knew that the MS could defeat him, so he killed the two sages that kept its power intact. And on the CT, the SR wasn't the DW until the IW as OOT Ganon never got to the SR on that timeline. That's why the split was created in the first place. On the CT, the AT events NEVER TOOK PLACE. That includes Ganon's defeat in that timeline. And the TR is NOT the DW. The DW transfigures anyone who enters it, including Ganon. The TR has no such power. And if the sages knew that Ganon was so powerful, why would they free him from the DW just to have a failed execution attempt and then send him to the TR? Even Ganon didn't expect to survive the execution. And Aonuma said that Ganon was sealed in the TR many years after OOT, not centuries.

5. And in the light spirits story it wasnt just the dark links it was the entire tribe and the dark mirror from FSA is the same one from TP because the dark mirror was the Interlopers only way out of the DW but Ganon was controlling them at the time and at the end of FSA the mirror is shattered like it is in the begginning of TP.

6. MY statement on the FSS stands where it is place before TP but after all the other games basically because Ganon is sealed at the end of the game, the dark mirror is shattered and is the same dark mirror from TP, and at the end Zelda is seen going into the trifroces room placement where she checks on its status since the SR was turned into the DW in ALTTP and then shortly after FSA turned into the TR.


the Dark Mirror was NOT destroyed in FSA. Zelda just pocketed it once she sealed off its ability to create Dark Links. That mirror might have been the reason Dark Link was in AOL. It can't possibly be the Mirror of Twilight since that mirror is much bigger than the Dark Mirror, and the former is just a portal that was shatter by Zant when he escaped, as stated in TP. I don't want to get into anymore details about the mirrors since I get annoyed by mirror arguments, and I've been involved in many of them. And I guess that bit about the Triforce in FSA, which really isn't explained since the Triforce has nothing to do with FSA, can put it after ALTTP, since that is when the Triforce was brought to Hyrule.

too much typing.


Welcome to the club. :n_n:

I'm tempted to take this to another site and see the input of the members there. :lol:

#20 Ventelus

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 06:58 PM

1.Just cause their U.S. doesnt mean their unreliable the stories i read about come from the translated japanese and the U.S. versions combined, From what i saw of all your source did was point out the U.S. and Japanese differences. Before OOT the triforce was kept by the king im talking about after OOT.

Posted Image yeah sorry bout that link didnt have the actuall ToC until the end of AoL when he saved the original Zelda and proved himself wothy of it.

I still have the Collectors' Edition and i read the intro to make sure and it does in fact say in the begginning Ganon escaped the DW and stole the ToP and when he stole it it was only the physical part. the actual force of the triforce was in him already which is why he is still Ganon Pig rather than Gerudo Ganondorf just like how Link always had the power of the ToC but never actually got it until the end of AoL.


2.Because the Oracles were in the same world as Hyrule. ST is in a different world because the gods flooded the original hyrule if the ST had their own gorons then that would mean The Gorons would have just been floating in the air before the Great Flood.


3.He knew the MS could kill him i never said he didnt thats why he tries to kill Link not destroy the master sword and he didnt kill the sages he sapped the MS power before the Great Flood as said by The King of Red Lions when link first gets the MS. Ganon got to the Sacred realm but was sealed at the end of The IW thats what started the IW is Ganondorf opening the portal to the SR and then it turned into the DW when he touched the Triforce right before he was sealed and when he broke the seal he found he couldnt get to the triforce because of the sages seal on the Triforce in the Pyramid of Power. and if the TR does have the power to alter peoples shapes otherwise the Dark Interlopers would have never become the Twili and the Twili never wouldve existed Ganondorf just didnt change because he was already altered and in the LS backstory she does state that they were sealed in a Dark World and that world they were sealed in eventually came to be known as the TR. I know Anoumo didnt say centuries in that speech but he did say centuries in the speech about its placement.


4.Ok well hold off on the mirror arguement for now.


P.S. From what i can tell the facts so far are that SS and OOT are the first in the timeline with SS preceding OOT and that the Adult Timeline only consits of TWW, PH, and ST in that order. All the 2D games go into the CT as does MM with it being a sequel to OOT. AoL is a direct sequel to LoZ and ALTTP goes somewhere before or after AOL and LOZ. LOZ, AOL and ALTTP go right after OOT and MM. LA is sequel to ALTTP and the Oracles are most likely to go between ALTTP and LA. TP most likely goes before or after the FSS and the FSS series goes somewhere after LoZ, AoL, and ALTTP.




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