My argumentative impotency

[Fantasy Panda Dreaming 0]

So, this thread has helped me realize that I have a serious problem.

I cannot, for the life of me, argue my own point.

All I'm really able to do is regurgitate information or get the topic off-track and hope that the people I'm arguing with stop arguing or fall into my divergent topic. Usually, de-tracking works well. But I don't really have a failsafe in case that...well, fails.

When I was 12 or 13 I used to argue (on friendly terms) with my friend about religion. I was actually decently okay at it, and after reading over an essay I wrote back then about it I can see that,

oh what,

I was way better at arguing (or at least analyzing my own thoughts) when I was 13 than I am now.

I mean, I'm supposed to be smarter now, right? Doesn't that mean I should be able to understand myself more and be able to process information better?

I don't know.

I feel like it might have something to do with my (attempted) indecisiveness/choosing the middle whenever possible, or vice-versa.

I guess I just try to avoid confrontation or something, which would kinda make sense since I'm nearly always mute in public and at school, when not entirely surrounded with people I feel comfortable around. But I feel like that'd have more to do with my (self-perceived) immense social awkwardness and lack of social skills.

Yeah. Just a rant n' stuff.

Line break line break line break.

[2356 23]

You said that you USED to have a friendly debate with your friend about religion. Maybe it's just that you're out of practice.

[Fantasy Panda Dreaming 0]

Yeah, I figured that might be it too. But I'm not really all for having many arguments with my friends, cuz I feel like they'd probably see me as more of a passive aggressive silent person, and suddenly speaking out about a topic would be weird and unexpected.

And whenever I do end up talking to a friend about something extensively, they tend to ignore me a lot after that.

[2356 23]

Then now you must resort to the internet and this thread. It's going to take a bit more effort but you should join us in our friendly debates/ranting.

[Fantasy Panda Dreaming 0]

This probably just means you're maturing. I don't know.

Which part? Being unable to argue or being able to realize it?

[2356 23]

I don't know. I think it can be fun to argue with people on the internet. Assuming said people are worth arguing with *cough*sane*cough*.

[Chimetals 344]

you could always join debate team/club, or even just watch >.>

theres a difference between discussing, debating, and arguing....the last one being highly informal and typically winds up with emotions involved. if you and others can keep the emotions out of it/pick a topic that you both

A ) have opposing opinions in and

B )are open-minded about (eg: well i think [this] but i understand your points.)

then you can most likely avoid scaring them off >.>

[Skippy 82]

Yeah, I figured that might be it too. But I'm not really all for having many arguments with my friends, cuz I feel like they'd probably see me as more of a passive aggressive silent person, and suddenly speaking out about a topic would be weird and unexpected.

And whenever I do end up talking to a friend about something extensively, they tend to ignore me a lot after that.

Well, for one, you should never "argue" with friends, it has a bad connotation, debate is a different thing, my best friend and I have very different opinions on many things, and debate constantly, but we are both secure enough in them to debate, and that is a big thing, to debate, you have to actually have a solid opinion to base something off of. Even if you wind up being wrong, you need to go in knowing what you believe and how to back it up, maybe you get proven wrong, maybe you don't, but a good debate among friends can be fun, enlightening, and maybe have you both/all learn something from it.

Do you get emotionally heated when you argue? If so, that could be part of the problem, it's okay to be vested, but you can't personally attack someone, or have them feel attacked, there's a fine line that needs to be watched, especially with friends who aren't very close and may not know you as a person as well. Find a way to segue into things you are passionate about, say if it comes up on tv, or in a class, or a conversation just naturally flows into similar subjects.

All in all though, it's one of those things that you shouldn't really worry about too much. You might have to do it in class, definitely will if you take oral com, current events, or go to college at all. But those are pretty guided, you'll usually get a subject and be able to get the ball rolling a bit. But if it doesn't usually come up in day to day life, then it isn't a big deal. The only way to get better at it, is to really have your own opinions, stay educated on what is happening in the world, and know where you stand, and let other people explain to you where they do, that is the foundation of debate.

[Fantasy Panda Dreaming 0]

Well, for one, you should never "argue" with friends, it has a bad connotation, debate is a different thing, my best friend and I have very different opinions on many things, and debate constantly, but we are both secure enough in them to debate, and that is a big thing, to debate, you have to actually have a solid opinion to base something off of. Even if you wind up being wrong, you need to go in knowing what you believe and how to back it up, maybe you get proven wrong, maybe you don't, but a good debate among friends can be fun, enlightening, and maybe have you both/all learn something from it.

Do you get emotionally heated when you argue? If so, that could be part of the problem, it's okay to be vested, but you can't personally attack someone, or have them feel attacked, there's a fine line that needs to be watched, especially with friends who aren't very close and may not know you as a person as well. Find a way to segue into things you are passionate about, say if it comes up on tv, or in a class, or a conversation just naturally flows into similar subjects.

All in all though, it's one of those things that you shouldn't really worry about too much. You might have to do it in class, definitely will if you take oral com, current events, or go to college at all. But those are pretty guided, you'll usually get a subject and be able to get the ball rolling a bit. But if it doesn't usually come up in day to day life, then it isn't a big deal. The only way to get better at it, is to really have your own opinions, stay educated on what is happening in the world, and know where you stand, and let other people explain to you where they do, that is the foundation of debate.

Oh, yeah, debate. Sorry ^^; I didn't really think of the bad connotation of the word 'argue.' I was distracted by the Rent soundtrack. Still kinda am ^^;

I guess I just feel like everyone else can express themselves so much more eloquently, and I just don't express myself very well. XP

[Skippy 82]

Well that comes with time, and practice. There are people that have more natural ability at it than others, but it can be learned. It takes an analytical mind to do it without a lot of effort, and you seem to be on the more creative end of the spectrum, not that that is a bad thing, it just means that in that type of serious debate, you would have to work harder.

And I understand being distracted by the rent soundtrack, Jonathan Larson was a theatrical genius. If you haven't got a chance to see the stage production yet, go the next time it's near you, it's worth the money and blows the movie out of the water (assuming it's a national tour with a good cast).