Balderdash: A Pheo/Saha project

[pheonix561 2080]

Apparently "Original Content" is an actual form you can put stuff in. I am going to christen this part of the forum right here and right now. History in the making. Check it.

For some months now, Sahaqiel and I have been discussing plans for making a video game together. For the past month I haven't really talked to him about it, because school is heating up for finals in a couple weeks, but I'm still doing things.

Normally, we just kept this between the two of us in a pm, but seeing that some of you are actually interested in seeing us talk about this and our development process, I figured we could have a thread for this. So far, I've been the one coming up with the brunt of the creative content, and I guess that's why I'm the one making the thread. Not that Sahaqiel has nothing to do with this. When it comes to duties, I'm going to be the one coming up with the most concept design, and he's going to be heading literally all of the programming. Things like music we intend to collaborate on. Well, we intend to collaborate on really all of this. But some of this is stuff one of us just excels in where the other doesn't. Namely programming. I am not doing any programming.

I'll open with a quote of the first PM I sent him. I'll spoiler it:

Working Title: "Balderdash"

The idea is to play as the younger brother of a mercenary leader, who did something stupid and got one of the most beloved commanders in the whatevername killed, along with a bunch of other soldiers and you defied orders and etc. So you got court martialed, and you would have been executed if it weren't for the fact that you were the brother of the leader, so instead you got sent to the "whatever poor connotational name" corp of the army, where all the soldiers who tried deserting while still under contract get sent to to be expendable and stuff. Ohhh nooooo!!!!! I'm planning out the story, but I'm more concerned with gameplay mechanics and level/character design right now. I'd still like to discuss it with you, but that's for later.

First, we have to decide if flight really is a good mechanic to have right now. If it sounds too much like kid icarus, we might have to change the game entirely to one based solely on running, but still a railshooter from behind. Think SA2B meets sin and punishment.

If the idea of a run fast fly faster rail shooter sounds good though, then I'll run over the basics before I have to run to class (squid I have so much work mondays and wednesdays). You fly, and you fly quickly. You're agile, and you can dodge bullets in the air faster, and you shoot better, and flying is just generally better for you. But if you get shot down, you have to get a running start before you can start flying again. You can build up a good running speed, but its nothing like when you're flying. You're also more susceptible to getting shot a whole bunch when you're on the ground. Also, sometimes there just isn't ground because you're waaaay too high up in the sky, oh no aaaaaaaah here's a drawing i made in literally five minutes because squid i have to go, dont even have time to draw what its like when you're running because GOSH

(Also I like the idea of naming the protagonist "Conchord Rushmore" AH HA HA RUSH DASH RUSHMORE YOU'RE NOT RUSHING ENOUGH AH HA HA HA HA)

(AND MAYBE THEY ALL CALL HIM "CONCH" BECAUSE THATS FUNNY FOR SOME REASON)

(Also "Baldr" should be the name of the army his brother commands, and I'm going for a "rush" dash" "sprint" kind of subliminal thing here)

That was the original message. Since then, I've been thinking about a bunch of different stuff about how best to go about executing this game. I honestly don't know where to begin, I think I'll explain in order from Gameplay Mechanics to Character Design to Plot/story/setting. That is the order of priority, here. Fun comes first.

The idea is pretty basic. What I had in mind was cross between starfox64 and Sonic Adventure 2 Battle(Sonic and Shadow's levels specifically)'s mechanics. In layman's terms, that's "A guy who runs fast and flies faster." You're running down the level in a 3D environment with the camera placed behind you, in third person. When you pick up enough speed, you can take off and get airborne. We want there to be incentive for you to stay in the air as long as possible. So when you're flying, you're going to be much more combat efficient. You'll be much more evasive in the sky than on the ground, not to mention you'll be covering distances faster. Overall, you'll just generally be better at everything. But, you can get shot down. Not in games like starfox where you get shot and that's it, you're dead, though. When you get shot out of the sky, you crash into the ground. Then you have to get up and start running again. I'll explain this mechanic in greater detail when I go into our protagonist's character design later(His name is Rushmore).

I said rail shooter originally, because I thought behind the back track based levels would be easier to do, given that the emphasis here is on moving forward. However, I think I'd like to include arena based levels and instances. Think Starfox's "All range mode." Levels like that open up room for not only a wider range of bossfights but also multiplayer. I'd like multiplayer in this game, and I can't think of any way for players to battle each other in a track level unless its a race, or maybe a co op level or something. Idk. I'm thinking out loud. I feel like I should be writing so much more on this subject, and I'm not because I didn't want to sit down and write an essay like I always do when I start talking about this game idea.

So I'm not going to write up a big long thing on character design yet, but I will call your attention to a post I made in the talk thread a couple days ago:

That idea was a really simple basic one for a five minute video game that has nothing to do with the one I've laid out. I'm gearing up to take classes in vector based illustration (art in photo shop) and Time Arts (3D modeling and animation) for my illustration major. Over the summer I'm going to be building a portfolio for review in December to see if I'm accepted into the major, and I'm going to work on building that around what an application for concept design into a studio would look like. Saha and I have discussed game play and music, along with some character concepts, and I Haven't discussed plot with him yet because I wanted to do that over spring break but that didn't happen. I wont post any pictures for the actual game because I only scanned four pages from my sketchbook and they're low quality, dated ideas for parts of the main character's suit, but if you're curious, think of the game as something like this, except everywhere and everything:

Except, a gazillion million times manlier.

All I'm saying is its a bigger idea than that goofy little thing I wanted to try.

When I posted this, a lot of you looked at it and interpreted it as "A game about a bunch of weapons anthropomorphized." First of all, anthropomorphized isn't the correct word in this context, we would want to say "automorphism" or "mechamorphism" or some shit like that. I dunno, anthro is animals and this would be military hardware. I do know this picture came up when I did a google search for "mecha masume." But none of that makes a difference because my second and main point is that this is not a game about planes that are people. This is a game about people with wings and jetpacks and stuff. The suits in this game are going to be designed to be functional. Not like this thing:

You will not see this in this game. It will not be in this game at all.

Ask me and Saha questions and things. We will answer them.

Not to say I don't find inspiration in their designs, even if they can't find it in their little hearts to put pants on

[Princess Valhalla Hawkwind 39]

Anthropomorphism is any attribution of human characteristics (or characteristics assumed to belong only to humans) to animals, non-living things, phenomena, material states, objects or abstract concepts, such as organizations, governments, spirits or deities.- Wikipedia

So I think anthro would still be the correct term, as it not only has to do with animals

EDIT- or maybe im missing the point when you say automorphism

[pheonix561 2080]

Is it rude of me to to randomly put my ideas into this? :c soz

It is absolutely not rude whatsoever. The whole reason I made a thread instead of just keeping this between me and Saha is to see what you guys had to say about this. I personally enjoy watching muffin and terrorist throw out ideas when saha and I are talking about this game over irc. Muffin actually suggested naming all the military things in alliteration, and saha suggested having different armies based on time of day. So we started throwing things out like "The Breakfast Battalion" and "The Lunch Legion" and stuff like that.

Also I totally got the definition of anthropomorphism wrong, wow.

[Teto 2609]

Is this a dating sim.

>anthro is animals

uh no not necessarily lol

The movie Cars is anthropomorphic, as is Toy Story and like, a lot of things.

Just wanted to point that out.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

Honestly I'm not as gung-ho for the project as pheo is, mostly because I have my own projects to tend to, but I'd like to contribute my help and style, I guess.

pheo suggested a mostly-house soundtrack, because it provides a steady beat like in REDLINE's Yellowline track. When you pick up speed, parts of the music are added. ie - Only a limited amount of percussion would be played when you're knocked out of the sky, until you take off, and the beat comes in. After defeating some enemies, the claps or snares would join in, and combos would start up instrumentals, or vocal parts. pheo was playing around with the idea of the concept, drawing inspiration from Donkey Kong Jungle Beat where when you're a certain amount of successful, the game shouts "GO! GO! GO! GO!", etc. I personally love vocal hits like that, so I think that'd be pretty cool. I also think that it would be great if shooting were timed to the music, so the gunshots would be part of the percussive section. If it's instant collision and the enemies make sounds when hit/destroyed, that would add to it too.

pheo was going through the plot with me, and yeah, it's a silly hectic game, so it's probably not going to be too complex. But he wanted to get it across to the viewer without breaking the action. So I suggested that the plot comes in very stylistic bursts. When you come across a plot point/boss, you look at each other showdown style and the art becomes very stylized. More than likely cel-shaded to some degree. Then there are wordless flashbacks as to the boss' backstory and its possible relation to you. Everything is in sync with the music, which should be on full blast by that point. Then as the cut scene starts to climax, the music also starts to mix out and build tension, until the music and the story builds a huge amount of tension as it reveals the boss' motivations and it all bursts and makes way for the battle and the music mixes into the next track. The stylistic filter would break like glass and the fight would begin. I think that would send goosebumps every time, and I think it's my favorite concept so far.

I'm having trouble imagining the art style for this game, also. It's hard to make me think of an animal themed army, because I think animal skin print is pretty cheesy. Daytime armor would be cool in concept, but the colors involved wouldn't be too varied and it wouldn't leave much room for creativity in design. I want to make the opponents less human looking in design, and more mechanical. More mecha, less musume, I guess. The variants that have been drawn now look either too under armored or too archaic or convoluted. It'd be nice to keep things relatively simple, but details and functionality are cool things too.

Sahaqiel

[Princess Valhalla Hawkwind 39]

Art style would really rely on game type. What genre is it? I'm imagining, with Saha's music comments, that it's a "top-down" shoot 'em up which often have pretty fast paced background music. If that's the case, I suggest going with really cool pixel sprites instead of 3-D models. Not only is it easier to create, but i think pixel art, when well done, can be extremely attractive- especially in indie games. But I'm talking full on 32bit with a cell shaded style (similar to minish cap or pokemon), not 16bit or less. With a style like that, the cut scenes can be fully drawn without a clash in style.

Just my 2 cents.

[Teto 2609]

LL is the final boss

wolf demon with two batwings and two angel wings, one blue eye one red eye, and a white and black tail which splits halfway with jagged lines. And really long claws with claw extensions and pink striped legwarmers on each leg. Hello Kitty necklace is pretty much obvious but I'll throw it in there as well. His catchphrase should be "Life is pain" and when he dies he should go "I win because you have to go on living".

[pheonix561 2080]

I wont even lie. When this gets finished, if I can, I want there to be DLC where you play through a fanfiction of the game as a mary sue. I've mentioned designs based on animals, and I'll go into that later, but I think it's very very obvious why I wouldn't pick the main character to be a wolf(He's the commanding officer of the elephants).

pheo was going through the plot with me, and yeah, it's a silly hectic game, so it's probably not going to be too complex. But he wanted to get it across to the viewer without breaking the action. So I suggested that the plot comes in very stylistic bursts. When you come across a plot point/boss, you look at each other showdown style and the art becomes very stylized. More than likely cel-shaded to some degree. Then there are wordless flashbacks as to the boss' backstory and its possible relation to you. Everything is in sync with the music, which should be on full blast by that point. Then as the cut scene starts to climax, the music also starts to mix out and build tension, until the music and the story builds a huge amount of tension as it reveals the boss' motivations and it all bursts and makes way for the battle and the music mixes into the next track. The stylistic filter would break like glass and the fight would begin. I think that would send goosebumps every time, and I think it's my favorite concept so far.

That's right, I think it will be a good vehicle for story telling during levels. But when it comes to story, I've been thinking about that for a while. See, I'm perfectly capable of laying out a real plot, with real characters, like I said. But I'm concerned with how that would affect the gameplay. During levels there'd naturally be plot elements occuring, and I absolutely love the idea of music hitting with all of that, but I don't know if that should carry between levels or not. If we do something like the level design we're talking about, and we do it right, it's going to give the player a crazy adrenaline rush(HUEHEUEHUEHUEHEUHE), and they're going to need time to rest between levels. Maybe. In Starfox, to give you a moment's reprieve, they'd send you to the level select screen. Since I doubt we'll have a branching path through the game, I'd like to put cinematic cut scenes there. That opens the door for a deeper plot, like one that I'd enjoy writing for. But if that breaks the style of the game, or if that gets to be too much to handle, I'm willing to scrap those ideas and just write a plot about as in depth as your typical short story.

I'm having trouble imagining the art style for this game, also. It's hard to make me think of an animal themed army, because I think animal skin print is pretty cheesy. Daytime armor would be cool in concept, but the colors involved wouldn't be too varied and it wouldn't leave much room for creativity in design. I want to make the opponents less human looking in design, and more mechanical. More mecha, less musume, I guess. The variants that have been drawn now look either too under armored or too archaic or convoluted. It'd be nice to keep things relatively simple, but details and functionality are cool things too.

Sahaqiel

First of all, there will be no "animal skin print." I promise you they're all going to be within the colour of the Balder Army. Those colours are Blue and Red. If that sounds like a bad idea to you, I'll explain why it's a good idea when I get to the post on colour theory, which there will be. Just know that it wont be the kind of saturated blue and red you see on things like the American flag or the Union Jack. Second of all, don't worry about the mech design for now. Wait until I post the designs, then worry about it.

[T1g 1503]

i am not sure if you mentioned this idea in there somewhere in that wall of text (i skimmed), but what i am thinking is that you can have it start off on foot, where you slowly accelerate, losing speed if you get hit by an attack, with the ability to perform some simple ground maneuvers to help avoid attacks. Then, if you manage to pick up enough speed, you will begin to fly (you know, like how planes need to go across a runway before they lift off). when in the air, you will have more maneuverability and abilities at your disposal to improve how well you can fight the enemies in game. If you get hit with a particularly devastating attack in this state, you will crash back into the ground, perhaps even getting crippled in the process (you know, like when you get your wings clipped in star fox). You can then maybe get a drop box from command containing some sort of repair drone or whatever that will fix you.

Also I want to team up with saha when this game production starts, because it will really help me career-wise in the long run if I take on outside projects like this. Plus, I have wanted to collaborate with saha on a coding project for quite a while, considering the two of us have had training in completely different fields.

See I can make long posts too

[Teto 2609]

Oh and by the way good luck making it past the stage where you draw stuff and throw around ideas.

[pheonix561 2080]

i am not sure if you mentioned this idea in there somewhere in that wall of text (i skimmed), but what i am thinking is that you can have it start off on foot, where you slowly accelerate, losing speed if you get hit by an attack, with the ability to perform some simple ground maneuvers to help avoid attacks. Then, if you manage to pick up enough speed, you will begin to fly (you know, like how planes need to go across a runway before they lift off). when in the air, you will have more maneuverability and abilities at your disposal to improve how well you can fight the enemies in game. If you get hit with a particularly devastating attack in this state, you will crash back into the ground, perhaps even getting crippled in the process (you know, like when you get your wings clipped in star fox). You can then maybe get a drop box from command containing some sort of repair drone or whatever that will fix you.

Also I want to team up with saha when this game production starts, because it will really help me career-wise in the long run if I take on outside projects like this. Plus, I have wanted to collaborate with saha on a coding project for quite a while, considering the two of us have had training in completely different fields.

See I can make long posts too

>Long posts

>One paragraph

You're out of your league

Also yeah that was the basic gist of the gameplay, though I don't think you would start out running every time. Some levels you got the ground below you and you start out running, some levels you got the ground but you're flying anyways, some levels you're flying and there is no ground so DONT GET SHOT OH NO. I'm gonna learn photoshop tonight by tracing over one of my sketches with a photoshop stick later and see if its look-at-able.

[T1g 1503]

i figured the transitioning between ground and air combat could get really hectic and fast paced, even if its not the way i described it

[pheonix561 2080]

Not that I haven't been working on this, just that I haven't been talking about it. In my illustration class we had an assignment to do a toy design, and I decided to do a "Figurine with detachable accessories" as a thinly veiled excuse to draw a character design for this game. I'll also be posting this in my art thread later, when I scan everything I did in illustration this semester. That's why this is such a shitty rendition, because I just picked it up off my cellphone camera. I'll scan it later.

This is a concept design for general of the army of the country that hired the balder knights. Which is to say, she isn't a knight herself, but she'll be working closely with the general of the balders(Rush's older brother). I'd like to do more like this, but that has to wait until finals are over. Also I have to get better at anatomy and technical shit. But that's how you get better at that, is by doing stuff like this.

Unlike the commanding officers of the balders, she rarely takes to the field. So she's not clad head to toe in armor, or any kind of battle suit. She's still armed, though. I'm trying to talk about her design without revealing too much about the story of the game, but this game isn't going to be heavily invested in the nature of the two factions at war with each other and what the conflict is. So she'll never take off her mask. She's supposed to be the faceless figure representing the reason why the balders are at war(cash money).

And it's because of that, that she's such a prevalent, included character, but so two dimensional, that she's going to be the sexiest female character. I want the females(not all of them, mind you) in this game to be attractive, but I don't see that as any reason to make them all super models, and I especially don't want to see them running around in skimpy outfits. Designing this game is my chance to say "Guys, what the hell. That's going to get them killed." But I know I still need at least one main character who looks sexy at a glance, and I figured since this character is going to be both two dimensional and in the game anyways, I might as well make her the sexy one. Notice how i managed to give her hips and curves and things without giving her literally any cleavage. And it's not like she has a shape that's unheard of for being sexy. If you want to compare and contrast anything, just look to everyone's favorite furry, Renamon!

I didn't even have her in mind while I was designing the officer, so I like to think that shows that me and whoever drew this digimon had the same thought process for our designs: How can I combine sex appeal and animals in a good way? Also Officer lady (who is unnamed so far, she'll probably stay that way) won't have a tail.

This is like the only picture on dA I could link that both showed her shape and wasn't trying to be furry porn.

Do any of you remember me mentioning that sometimes I'll save pictures just because there's a single element in it that I like, even if the rest of the picture is shit? When I was looking for a picture to use I found a drawing of renamon with her puppers out in the stupidest way, but I really, really liked her hair, and so I went back and forth between myself for ten minutes before I finally caved and saved the picture. I have furry porn on my hard drive now. squid.

When I said, previously, "animal themed army," I didn't mean "Lets put them all in giant pigs." That's pushing it. I meant "I want to design a bunch of characters who wear suits that make you say 'yeah, I can see why someone would call that a horse unit' when you look at them." This character is an example of that. She's got a pig mask. Her army, and the nation she serves, holds the pig as their national animal and mascot. This is a world where armies dress up like animals and kill each other. The nation you're fighting in the game will either be horses, snakes, or dogs, because all of those fit with the shape of the units i want you to be fighting. Deal with it. I'm going to take this opportunity to mention that I'm very well aware that choosing to make a game about borderline anthropomorphic soldiers is dangerously furry bait. So I'm taking the proper precautions by not making any wolf or dragon soldiers. Remember when I mentioned dog soldiers a minute ago? I'm very, very wary of that decision. The more and more I think about it the more and more it's probably gonna be a horse army. And even then, that's still furry bait. Gotta play this carefully. Also I'm trying not to include and bird units like eagles, just because that's too easy. But I digress. The army that hired the balders emblazons itself with pigs, as does it's general.

It's also a dig at the fact that she's the only two dimensional sexy girl character I want to have in the game. She's wearing the mask of an animal often associated with gluttony and not sexy things. But most of all, she's a pig, and she's commanding an entire army which, due to the nature of the game, includes having a powerful airforce. When pigs fly, right? HEU HUE HUEEH UEH EUHEU HEUHUEHEU!!!!!!!!!! Which is to say, for the flying portion of her design, I was thinking of swellow. I like swellow. He's a cool guy. He's one of my favorite bird pokemon. Maybe my favoritest.

Think the tails of a butler's jacket or coat or tux or whatever meets Swellow's wings/tail thing. "I put her wings on her butt." That's my design, right there. Buttwings. Also, she'll be having a butler walking around with her because she's fancy and femme fatale and who cares. I'll get to the butler pun in a minute. Let me talk about her weapons.

She's got a sword. Yeah. Rank and file officer, they got swords and sabers and shit. Fancy dudes, higher up people, they got rapiers and all that jazz. She's also got a buckler. Figures, right? I mean you got the sword, you might as well have a buckler. So she's got those things. But get this! The buckler is ALSO A MACHINE GUN. Woah woah woah. Back the squid up. Did I put a machine gun on her wrist that is also a shield? You bet your hernia'd rectum I did and you're gonna love it. It's one of those round ammo drums you see on things like Tommy guns and other guns, probably. That cylinder sticking out of one side is where the bullets exit her fist. It's off to the side because she's not in combat, and needs to use her hand for things like resting it on her hip, which she wouldn't be able to do with that barrel there. Don't think she's going to be out flying. She doesn't take to the field, remember? She's landlocked. But she's still a formidable fighter, especially with that sword. Man, machine gun arm and sword? Gosh I am so cool for putting this in the game. Fun with a gun! You won't get bored with a sword! AH HA HA HA HAHAHAHAHA but wait! why am I so worried about designing a character for combat if she rarely takes to the field? PLOT AND GAMEPLAY.

That buckler, I looked at it and said, "Wow, what if I had a butler going around serving shit on one of those things?" And then I was like "Yeah, that'll be funny." Haven't drawn him yet, but you'll like him. He probably won't have the crown on his helmet like she does(the spikes things). But yeah, a butler. All of this without mentioning color scheme, which I also just realized will be basically the same thing Swellow up there has going on, but for all the units of the Balder Army. Shit man how big of an influence was Swellow on me, squid how did that happen, shit do I have long posts on this game, this is just a semi minor character design and I wrote all this, what is my deal? I'll make a big post on colour theory for this game later. It'll be big and long, I guarantee that. "Red and blue are dumb colours to choose!" SHUT UP I'LL ADDRESS THAT ISSUE.

One last thing. Yeah, she's got a basic design for a character design. That's because she, along with everything else in the game, is going to be low poly. I have to model a lot of things, and I'd like to find someone to help me animate them, but I still have lots of modeling to do. So they gotta be low poly for this. That's why she doesn't have things like metals on her and stuff like that. I want you to be able to identify these characters without needing to add too much detail to them. I'm bearing shape in mind for all of them a lot. That's going to be a major player in making these work.

Feel free to ask me anything about anything, though. I mean yeah, finals, but I still love talking about this.

[Princess Valhalla Hawkwind 39]

I haven't read all of your post yet, but I can't stop thinking about Mother 3 when I see the first pic. I mean it reminds me of Pigmask so much.

[pheonix561 2080]

I haven't read all of your post yet, but I can't stop thinking about Mother 3 when I see the first pic. I mean it reminds me of Pigmask so much.

That basically means I've succeeded in like a billion ways