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A Quick Question from a Frustrated Fan

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Posted

Objectively, I think you're a bit biased against WW if you really think the environment in TP had more substance and reward, but this isn't a debate thread for TP vs. WW.

 

Like I said, sure, I would like a return to the style. I don't want it to stay in one style or the other, since I enjoy it when Nintendo experiments. Zelda has typically been their guinea pig for new techniques and technologies. The go-to series for when Nintendo has a shiny new thing, and they want to make it the best they can. But it would be great if they improved upon those visuals, and then made the world around it not so melodramatic and shallow. And to not have so many useless characters and items. And more of a use for the millions of Rupees the game throws at you. I could go on. But hey, rather than making the game around the idea that "we should appease the Western audience", (which, whether you admit to it or not, is just to put out the same-old without departing from any previous formulae, kind of what you're going for), what you should be concerned with is that they make it around the idea of "making the best game we can with what we're provided", like every other Zelda game. Skyward Sword in particular. That game was mindblowing. And it wasn't even full-on WW-style cel-shaded, but rather, it was inspired by the works of Paul Cezanne, a famous impressionist artist. Despite that, it still expressed some pretty complex emotions and settings, which is why I'm saying that style doesn't matter, and in fact, the stylistic choice can make those emotions stand out by contrast if you're willing to not take yourself so seriously. If Majora's Mask was in Wind Waker style, it may have been even more grim and twisted. Majora's Mask was so creepy, not just because of all the weird stuff you find in it, but because of a concept like the uncanny valley. Without going overboard, they twisted the normalcies of reality just a little bit. Distorting the familiar by just a bit is the best way to make it horrifying.


I'd enjoy a 3DS remake of Majora's Mask, but I don't want them to try to make a game like their previous ones. They always tried to do something different, except in the case of TP. As long as they still have the western audience's attention, they probably won't need to go that direction again.

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Posted

"im starting to get a feel of what you mean by the styles, you just didnt word it in the best way initially, i think. its kainda one of those more intangible things--basically: youre not looking for grit and angst, but you want a zelda with a darker sort of world/story--something more twisted on the inside. like the feeling you get from the skulletta house in OoT, or when you make the seven year jump to find that the castle town is populated by redeads"

 

Yes, you worded that nicely. But the non-cel-shaded stuff is also very important to me since I believe that it represents that type of Zelda much better.

the main perk of the cel shaded style, imo, was the expressions. it looked cartoony, yeah, but that same simplicity allowed them to pack more faces on link. on the flip side, the miles of ocean were a turnoff for a lot of people. p sure even PH had less sailing (though the ship battles were so much fun for me ;u; circles round the bosssss)

 

i hadnt been able to really play SS even a little due to having bought four wiimotes early on (that is, no wii motion plus) but i wanna say that they managed to take that sort of middle-ground style and give link more expression there, too. basically: theyre learning. they know the cartoony style freaked people out, and remains a turn-off to some people to this day, but they wanted that level of emotion, i think.

 

i agree with saha in that i dont see nintendo going alllllllllllll the way over to the extreme that TP is, but i cant see them throwing themselves waaaaaaaay over to the extreme side of whimsy. on the other hand, one of the strange things about older games in general, is that they were more disturbing in some aspect or another. it was like the generation of games themselves were like that--it doesnt feel like they all sat down and said "ok, lets make a really freaky game". also why kid icarus: uprising's enemies are so out there--theyre all based on enemies from twenty years ago. octorocks are pretty freaky lookin too. and hell, whats up with koopas.

 

got off topic there a bit, sorry. point is: while the sort of near-trauma or haunting situation everyone had at some point as a kid from a videogame (heres lookin at you, redeads) is something we all can bond over or want a return to, i get the feeling that the PR department will look at it these days and be like "no, lets not scare the kids". at the same time, kids are more exposed to "scary" things earlier--the end result is that everyone runs on a sort of average of whats ok and whats too far out there.

 

and suddenly, what i have pulled from this thread is "the world needs some more crazy". well, that, and "i really need to play console zelda"

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Posted

@Chimetals

 

Yeah, I agree with just about everything you said there. I think that people were scared away from WW (as sales show) and it just wasn't me but I'm willing to admit that TP's 'twilight zone' darkness could've been cut to a positive effect. If you play the game without the twilight zone, it's not nearly as dark and perhaps more enjoyable. Skyward was a blend but it leaned to WW more, WW more of that 9-14 age group and TP being more than the 13-18 group, arriving at what Nintendo believes is a happy median. So I guess Nintendo is going to take more of that direction now and have a OoT/with cel-shade look to it.

 

Looking at it all, I wish that they could've done what they did with Super Mario Galaxy, a nice, classic update to Super Mario 64. But as Sahaqiel said, Nintendo likes playing around with Zelda. 

 

If I could have my perfect Zelda game, here's how it would go: You would get classic areas like Hyrule field, death mountain and the like. The storyline would be complex and leave plenty of questions unanswered. Link would get a hybrid of classic and new weapons, with nothing that's completely crazy (flying leaves or heavy ball&chains). It would have an HD OoT type graphical style. Key locations would be revisited many times for side quests but minor, unique  or hard to reach areas would scarcely be revisited by the main plot path. Puzzles would difficult and usually localized (If the player is forced to sail over an ocean to collect a number of yellow shards or something similar...more than once... yeah, don't get me started) The main characters would have depth, but minor characters would mostly serve their purpose and not get in the way of major ones. And there would be only a handful of major characters so that each one can have a maximum developmental period. And the player would be able to abuse chickens freely.

 

But hey, that's just me. What about you guys?

 

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Posted

I just don't understand why people don't love Wind Waker's graphics. Honestly, people are so concerned with "realism" that they forget that fantasy is fantasy because it's fantastic, not realistic!! TP looked like a video game version of every other generic anime ever. Wut fun is that? "Oh wow there are 4 shades of brown in this level wow!" like, no thanks?

 

My problems with TP, as a game and as a whole:

-Dull, unimaginative graphics

-Lots of nothing to do

-Really boring dungeons

-I'm gonna be honest I played the game and I don't even remember wut it was about. That's how compelling I found the story.

-A handful of really cool items that you get to use a whole one time wooooo! (seriously, that statue wand and the giant beyblade are totally sweet and after you use them in their respective dungeons or events you barely, if ever, use them again.)

 

Reasons why I love WW:
-Beautiful, or at least very interesting to visually experience.

-Very very very well designed characters

-Ganon gets a back story that isn't shit!

-So much to discover and do. puppy I just had fun sneaking around that windmill island and puppying shit up!

-Smooth game play. Oh, so smooth.

-And um, excuse me... this> Skull_Hammer.png

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Posted

And the player would be able to abuse chickens freely.

you can always abuse chickens freely. they just happen to maul you afterwards :3

 

But hey, that's just me. What about you guys?

spirit tracks did a good job, but the puzzles in the main quest werent that great. side dungeons? oh, yes. those could be downright painful. i liked OoA/OoS, though i cant quite put my finger on what--maybe its how the same area was completely changed with a harp or a season swap, but whatever they did there, more of that would be awesome. minish cap had a similar feel, with shrinking/growing changing your interactions with everything. tbh, i dont really like having to go back to a dungeon just to derp around for hidden items with weapons from later dungeons, and no other motive--im looking at you, phantom hourglass--but the idea of never coming back to a dungeon is also kainda sad.

 

while the ocean king temple was the biggest pain in the ass to retrace the levels in, it also gave a nice sense of accomplishment when you did so, and starting from floor 1 with shiny new weapons got you a bigger time bonus with shortcuts--a nice touch, i think, though that temple wasnt as awful for me as it was for a lot of people. i guess what i would be looking for would be a game where the dungeons have different sections that you would need later weapons to access, possibly opening up really hard puzzles and a clear path/rewards that arent found by scouring the whole dungeon with a fine toothed comb. that way, nintendo could keep their easier puzzles for newer players, but give the more advanced players something to chew on.

 

also, trading chains. i cant remember if they were in the DS games or not, but i dont really remember them being there--you know, when you swap the chicken for the lantern for the paper for the smelly bag...and eventually get a reeeeeeeeeeally nice (but optional) sword/shield. frustrating, but i love em. same with the minish caps stones--it got dull at times, but it was rather fun most of the game.

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