Literature Superthread

[Necropolis 763]

I'm also reading clash of kings, though i'm some 300 pages behind you.

[pheonix561 2080]

HEY I FINISHED HYPERION

 

WOW

[Necropolis 763]

HEY I FINISHED HYPERION

WOW

I'm on my phone and spoilers don't work when I'm on my phone so I'll be vague. How about that thing that the plot managed to obfuscate completely until the last two stories. The thing with the Hegemony? One of the most masterful twists i've seen in how devious and obvious it is.

[Teto 2609]

I was at a bookshop the other day while waiting in Inverness for Cascade and LL, and found Hyperion and The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le Guin for £3.50 each. So I'll read one of them after A Feast for Crows.

 

So basically, bookwise I've got to read A Feast For Crows, Flowers for Algernon, Hyperion, and The Left Hand of Darkness. Putting a book or between A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons, maybe The Left Hand of Darkness, or maybe one of the Earthsea novels if my friend is done with my copy of The Earthsea Quartet by the time I'm done A Feast for Crows.

[Necropolis 763]

I decided to take a ice and fire break after storm of swords, to catch up on other things. How is Feast?

[Teto 2609]

I'm not that far into it, but it's pretty enjoyable to read as always. From the looks of it, it's one of the slower books, judging by the fact it's got the lowest average rating of any of the books (though saying that, it's still rated well).

 

Spoiler'd just in case you don't want to know which perspectives are added. Though they're the first couple chapters, introduced one after the other.

It adds perspectives of Cersei and Brienne early on (chapters 3 and 4). This one starts the whole thing with having chapters for seemingly random characters, like

The Prophet (Aeron Dampair, Theon's uncle, Chapter 1) and The Captain of Guards (Areo Hotah, Doran Martell's guard, Chapter 2). I think Aeron Damphair comes back for more perspective chapters later on, but I'm not sure on that. Don't know if Areo Hotah was just a one-off or if he'll be back later either.

 

It's quite good. Shame the blurb actually spoiled one plot thing, which came about a few chapters into the book, but still a little annoying that I couldn't have found out about it just from the book it self. Beware of blurbs. Spoilers in plain sight, there. I have one more proper spoiler from this book, which I think will come about like halfway through, but it's not very huge (like, not a death) and I don't really know the context, so it's okay.

 

But yeah, so far it's good as any of the books. Doubt there will be much flash and action, but it's still an enjoyable read.

 

 

edit: Was thinking on what the reason behind the name A Feast for Crows might have been (not hard to theorise really), but 187 pages in someone goes and says something which pretty much confirms it

"We had one king, then five. Now all I see are crows, squabbling over the corpse of Westeros."

[Necropolis 763]

It sounds like a good character piece. Not as mind blowing as Storm, but lots of good backstory bits. Same friend who's lent me the others lent me feast, and I gotta say it looks really small in comparison to the last couple I read. I already know about those povs. I know about one thats coming later. Unexpected, but I'm looking foward to it.

[Teto 2609]

Finished Feast for Crows last night. Good book in all, but not so good as the others.

 

Started The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula LeGuin, and it raised a really interesting idea for me. I'm only a few pages in so far. The story centers around this guy who's acting as some sort of representative on the planet of Winter, where (wait for it) it's always winter. The thing is though, the species of people who live on this planet are sexless and genderless. Being used to gender from his own planet, the main character keeps mentally assigning genders to these people.  I noticed that every authority figure who's shown up so far has been seen by him as being male.

 

So it makes the point to me that you'd really be able to have a good insight into where your own prejudices regarding gender lie, if you met these genderless people and assigned genders to them based on how they act and what role they play in society.

[Teto 2609]

Since that post, I stopped reading The Left Hand of Darkness because I was getting through it slowly, and since Padraig went and died I wanted to read something more absorbing, so I read A Dance With Dragons parts 1 and 2, and then True Grit, and then Flowers for Algernon.

 

True Grit was a good book, and I really liked Mattie's character. She was a sort of stern headstrong young girl, but not cynical either. She'll drive a really hard bargain, and go at everything she does with a great deal of purpose and logic, really well motivated. She'll use her knowledge of the law to really get the most out of people money-wise. But in her own inner monologues she's shamelessly in awe of other peoples' skills, and gives credit where credit's due. She remains courteous and well-meaning towards people she has been (somewhat unfairly) hard on, but not apologetic for her actions either. So while she might ruthlessly force people to do as she wants, she doesn't really have a great deal of contempt for them either. I don't think I have her figured out really, or really know for sure what her flaws are as a person, but she's a good character and I enjoyed reading her POV in the book. I can't remember the film so much, but I remembered liking the atmosphere, so that's why I picked up the book.

 

Flowers for Algernon was good too. Everything kind of faded off towards the end, and a lot of things lacked closure, but I liked that too. It left it feeling tragically empty at the end, but not totally lacking since there was a kind of conclusion at the end of it all.

 

But now I'm going to go back again and read The Left Hand of Darkness again, starting from the beginning again to make sure I follow it. I wasn't reading very closely in the first place anyway, and I look forward to re-reading old scenes again, and re-inking my memory of them, so to speak.

Like the first time though, I'm still totally mesmerised by the opening paragraphs, not getting past them because I just like mulling them over.

 

I'll make my report as if I told a story, for I was taught on my homeworld that Truth is a matter of the imagination. The soundest fact my fail or prevail in the style of its telling: like that singular organic jewel of our seas, which grows brighter as one woman wears it and, worn by another, dulls and goes to dust. Facts are no more solid, coherent, round, and real than pearls are. But both are sensitive.

The story is not all mine, nor told by me alone. Indeed I am not sure whose story it is; you can judge better. But it is all one, and if at moments the facts seem to alter with an altered voice, why then you can choose the fact you like best; yet none of them are false, and it is all one story.

 

 

The "singular organic jewel" is described as growing brighter when worn by, assumedly, a beautiful woman, but when worn by another, perhaps less beautiful, it dulls goes to dust. I assume it's to do with beauty on the context; I don't know if that metaphor is elaborated on later in the book. But since this is Genly Ai speaking, I guess it's indicative of his gender bias, since as you see in the book he subconsciously associates actions with different gender stereotypes. Like how a tendency towards tenderness would make him see the person he was speaking to as being more woman-like. Which doesn't make much sense considering everybody in this world is genderless, and so there are no 'gender specific characteristics', so to speak. I don't know how much or little I'm looking into it, but I feel like it's a point the book tries to get across.

 

The Wikipedia page actually says this: "It is among the first books published in the feminist science fiction genre, and the most famous examination of sexless androgyny in science fiction."

 

So yeah, there's that. It's an interesting book. I look forward to getting through it.

[Necropolis 763]

What about Dance. I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.

[Teto 2609]

What about Dance. I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.

I dunno. It was all good, but I can't really remember anything I have to say about it. Just like, stuff happened and it's all in progress as usual. Not a whole lot to chew on. I just look forward to the next book to see what happens next. Like, the last Jon chapter was interesting and good but there's not much to my reaction except saying "that chapter!!!" immediately after finishing it. Like, I guess you could theorise about what happens next, but it just doesn't occur to me to do so.

 

So yeah, I guess my thoughts are: It was good. I look forward to Winds of Winter.

 

I might have had more to say while/immediately after reading, but the details are actually growing hazy in my mind already, since after I finished the book I immediately moved on, without mulling it over.

So hey, you could say some stuff about it that you want to hear my opinion on, and it might ring some bells for me. I probably have thoughts, but I just haven't thought about the books in a while.

[Necropolis 763]

Alrighty then, spoilers below... Sort of.

 

I liked everything but Dany. Dany chapters were the turd in the punch bowl of my experience. Every chapter was, Barristan: We have to get the puppy out of here Ghiscari #1: You must open the fighting pits Queen Ghiscari #2: We must KILL GHISCARI #1 he can't be trusted! Martells: Your people are prepared to rebel in your name Westeros is WAITING to be conquered! And then at the end of each chapter Dany does none of those things and chooses to brood about Dario Naharis. She took stupid pills from Cercei Lannister obviously. It just astounds me that this is the same girl who conquered slavers bay. And it wouldn't be so bad, but she doesn't DO anything until the end, and thats drogon doing a thing, not here, and she has more chapters than almost any other single character. It just draaaaaags on.... Other than that it was fine. Theon's taking charge of himself was one of my favorite bits, like where he looks at the weirwood and sees bran. Yeah. Theres a starter I guess, i'm sure theres more, been a while since I finished it too.

Edited 13 Dec 2013 by Necropolis (see edit history)

[Teto 2609]

Alrighty then, spoilers below... Sort of.

 

I liked everything but Dany. Dany chapters were the turd in the punch bowl of my experience. Every chapter was, Barristan: We have to get the puppy out of here Ghiscari #1: You must open the fighting pits Queen Ghiscari #2: We must KILL GHISCARI #1 he can't be trusted! Martells: Your people are prepared to rebel in your name Westeros is WAITING to be conquered! And then at the end of each chapter Dany does none of those things and chooses to brood about Dario Naharis. She took stupid pills from Cercei Lannister obviously. It just astounds me that this is the same girl who conquered slavers bay. And it wouldn't be so bad, but she doesn't DO anything until the end, and thats drogon doing a thing, not here, and she has more chapters than almost any other single character. It just draaaaaags on.... Other than that it was fine. Theon's taking charge of himself was one of my favorite bits, like where he looks at the weirwood and sees bran. Yeah. Theres a starter I guess, i'm sure theres more, been a while since I finished it too.

Dany's chapters did drag a bit yeah. I felt like she was just really tired after everything else she'd done until that point. She needed an escape, and Dario was it. She was sick of being Queen, and sick of trying to rule over all of these people. She got worn out and so she got lazy and indecisive. I felt like the mind-numbing nature of all of her chapters was a reflection of that. We felt her boredom and impatience, in some small way. That's how it translates to me, kind of. We were bored, but so was she, and I guess that was the point. If the chapters were all really concise and action packed, then her rule wouldn't seem nearly as dull to us as she felt it was. So it was kind of fitting in a way, that her chapters dragged. We felt how difficult and gray-area-ish her situation was, and were equally worn down by the monotony of it. We didn't know what was to be done, and she didn't either. When you don't know what to do, and people keep talking down your ear to make a decision, it's quite easy to shut off, and lose interest, and so you get bored and impatient. That seemed to be how Dany felt, and I felt that way too, through reading the chapters.

 

Maybe. I might just be feeling fanciful though, making stuff up. My analysis there makes enough sense in my own head, but I'm on the beer, so.

[Necropolis 763]

Dany's chapters did drag a bit yeah. I felt like she was just really tired after everything else she'd done until that point. She needed an escape, and Dario was it. She was sick of being Queen, and sick of trying to rule over all of these people. She got worn out and so she got lazy and indecisive. I felt like the mind-numbing nature of all of her chapters was a reflection of that. We felt her boredom and impatience, in some small way. That's how it translates to me, kind of. We were bored, but so was she, and I guess that was the point. If the chapters were all really concise and action packed, then her rule wouldn't seem nearly as dull to us as she felt it was. So it was kind of fitting in a way, that her chapters dragged. We felt how difficult and gray-area-ish her situation was, and were equally worn down by the monotony of it. We didn't know what was to be done, and she didn't either. When you don't know what to do, and people keep talking down your ear to make a decision, it's quite easy to shut off, and lose interest, and so you get bored and impatient. That seemed to be how Dany felt, and I felt that way too, through reading the chapters.

 

Maybe. I might just be feeling fanciful though, making stuff up. My analysis there makes enough sense in my own head, but I'm on the beer, so.

 

Yeah, I don't think it was poorly written or anything. Deliberate or not some of those chapters were so damned tedious.  As I understand GRRM had originally wanted to do a time skip to skirt over some of the tedium in Dance, but it only really benefited Dany. Everybody else had stuff to do. I think people called that the Meerenese knot? Yeah. But like I said I liked almost everything else. Did you have a favorite plot line?

[Teto 2609]

Yeah, I don't think it was poorly written or anything. Deliberate or not some of those chapters were so damned tedious.  As I understand GRRM had originally wanted to do a time skip to skirt over some of the tedium in Dance, but it only really benefited Dany. Everybody else had stuff to do. I think people called that the Meerenese knot? Yeah. But like I said I liked almost everything else. Did you have a favorite plot line?

hmmm probably not. They were all pretty good in their own ways, I can't remember distinctly enjoying some more than others. Tyrion's were good, but they could get tedious too. Theon's were frustrating but good as well. A big lot of nothing seemed to happen through the whole book. But as you said, it was originally meant to be dealt with in flashbacks after a timeskip, rather than talked through detail by detail. 

 

Like how people say that all the most important changes in your brain happen when you're asleep. Nothing major is happening in your life as you lay there in bed for hours, yet all the important changes happen in that time. It's slower and more subtle. It's like books 4 and 5 are that sleep, in between the great wars of Westeros that happen during those waking hours on either side. The quiet as someone draws their fist back before the second punch. The eye of the storm. So book 5 had a lot more interesting stuff happening, on smaller scales than books previous to 4, but it was all good and all seemed necessary.

 

If you can follow my train of thought at all, I don't know.