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Game Of Thrones[SPOILERS]: The "Not the Books" Thread WITH HUGE SPOILERS

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Posted

So does anybody else here just watch the show and prefer to not read the books like me? Because that's pretty much what I do. If you read the books and are past the point in the story the series is (about halfway through book three as of this posting and the end of season 3), would you mind not posting spoilers?

Which is kind of ridiculous for me to request because this is still going to be a pretty spoilery thread for anybody who doesn't watch the show, but GAME OF THRONES. IT'S A GOOD TV SHOW. The only reason you might not like it is because you don't like the setting? Which is a pretty stupid reason to think it's a bad show, I say.

So hey, how about that season 3 ending? What didja think? Who're your favorite characters? What do you like most about this show (unfair question there's too many good things about it)?



FROM HERE ON OUT THERE'S PROBABLY SPOILERS

My favorite character is prooooobably Tywin Lannister:

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Yeah it's probably just gonna be me posting images and gifs related to the show w/e

 

 

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Posted

I am always up to takl Game of Thrones. I started reading the books because I was spoiled to the red wedding and I decided I would make myself unspoilable. Also because theres a lot of interesting lore that doesn't make it to the show. Only at clash of kings though. I love how Roose bolton is just barely holding back his open loathing of Frey. Like that whole scene episode 10, you can see his shit eating grin, and his sarcasm while Frey talks about how impressive HIS plan to do what he did.

Also it might be best to add to the title of the thread the open ruinous spoilers...

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Posted

Good Idea. How do I edit a thread title again?

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Posted

No idea. You could edit the first post with a huge SPOILERS banner

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Posted

Make the title "Game of Thrones [spoilerS]" rather than having all that extra, because when I look at the thread on the forums it only has "WITH" and then cuts off there.

 

Also put all the pictures in spoiler tags, just in case. I didn't read them but they probably give some stuff away. For instance (season 2/book 2 spoilers):

It wasn't let on until the end of the second book that Lord Tywin came to King's Landing at all, and knowing that he has talks with Joffrey gives away the fact that he runs to help King's Landing during the battle of Blackwater.

 

And yeah, everybody detail what you could be spoiling inside your spoiler tags. Pretty much any talk of anything that happens in any of the books or episodes should be considered a spoiler, so unless it's very very general and you are very very sure that it can't spoil anything at all, or downright off topic, then put it in spoilers.

 

A thing which spoiled the book in a small, almost insignificant way for me was that (book 2/season 2 spoilers)

I saw Bran's age on a wiki page, and so I knew that he wasn't really killed. If I hadn't known that he definitely lived to a certain point, I wouldn't have been sure that he wasn't killed off back there.

 

Anyway, end of book 2/season 2 spoilers.

Just finished Clash of Kings today.

 

Reek is a pure dick, and I don't look forward to having to witness his existence any further. Theon had been a proper fool, but I knew that it wasn't evil, but just him getting in over his head and not really being all that cruel a person, but feeling obligated to keep forcing himself to be a certain kind of person. Once Luwin offered the idea of yielding and taking the black, the idea sounded so appealing. He wasn't cut out for being the kind of person he wanted to be, and the idea offered him relief from the track he'd put himself on. He would be forever bound to the wall, but he wouldn't need to be anything but that. From where he was at that point, taking the black would be such a relief. But then Reek came along and won the battle. Theon had felt in his heart that he didn't want to win after all, and he would stop there and all the bloodshed would end, and then Reek comes along, takes down the opposition, which is very frustrating because it just prolongs Theon's discomfort, and then Reek comes in and takes down Theon's side as well. Pure dick. Takes down one side pretending to be the other, and then turns on his allies and seizes the victory for himself. Kind of like someone butting into a conversation, but lots of characters are dead. Very rude.

 

And dear old Bran. He had the last chapter of the book, and I did love the last paragraph. Here it is, for those who want an excerpt of the book:

 

The stone is strong, Bran told himself, the roots of the trees go deep, and under the ground the Kings of Winter sit their thrones. So long as those remained, Winterfell remained. It was not dead, just broken. Like me, he thought. I'm not dead either.

At the edge of the wolfswood, Bran turned in his basket for one last glimpse at the castle that had been his life. Wisps of smoke still rose into the grey sky, but no more than might have risen from Winterfell's chimneys on a cold autumn afternoon. Soot stains marked some of the arrow loops, and here or there a crack or a missing merlon could be seen in the curtain wall, but it seemed little enough from this distance. Beyond, the tops of the keeps and towers still stood as they had for hundreds of years, and it was hard to tell the castle had been sacked and burned at all.

 

Brannnn you beautiful baby, thank you for realising that being a cripple doesn't mean your life is over, and then expressing it so nicely.

 

And that's it.

I've not much to say on the stories of other character. I just hate Reek and love Bran.

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Posted (edited)

tfw Bran wargs into Hodor and kills one of Dany's dragons at the end of ADWD

 

/s

 

*smug book-reader grin*

Edited by emsomniac (see edit history)

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Posted

dumb

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Posted

This is really more of a show thread than a book thread, so lets try to keep the conversation on the show, the actors, and maybe differences between show and book.

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Posted

I only intend to talk about the books up to the point that the TV show has covered.

pheonix561 likes this

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Posted

Hey so I was gonna make a post about this back when I started the thread but I didn't because I was an idiot so I ended up posting a bunch of season finale stuff, but hey, lets talk about our favorite aspects of game of thrones!

Sure there are plenty of great things about the show, I guess. Like the fact that all of the characters you can't help but find at least something likeable in, even the shitty ones. Or the fact that all of the stories are fascinating enough that each and every one of them could be a movie or book in and of itself and it would still be worth watching. Or maybe the solid world building is just the bee's knees. And it's not like those are awful reasons to like the show or anything. I completely agree with them.

But I think, personally, my favorite part of GoT is the way the story is told through multiple stories unfolding at the same time, on top of each other. Not only does one story paint a beautiful picture of context for all the other stories(as do all the stories for each other), but it sets up such a good way to display the characters we don't follow. Like Tywin Lannister, one of my favorite characters of the show. We don't follow him like we follow Tyrion or Robb or Arya. Sure we see who and where he is between their stories, but it's not like we know what he's planning or doing in the interim.

 

In my head, I refer to them as primary and secondary characters based on whether or not we follow them personally like that. It doesn't mean a secondary character is any less important to the story than the primary characters, far from it. It just means we don't follow them. But that adds so much to their characters so often. Tywin Lannister (who also happens to be my favorite example for this) is inherently a mysterious, crafty character who has the audience asking lots of questions about him and what he's planning. But the fact that we don't actually follow him multiplies that exponentially. Tyrion is crafty and clever the way he navigates the complex social situations of noble life in king's landing just the same, but the fact that pretty much we always know exactly what he's going to do takes away from that(though its not a bad thing).

In season 2, when Tyrion wants to figure out which of the members of his high council is going to betray him to the queen, he meets with all of them in secret and tells them he's going to send the queen's daughter to a different neighboring kingdom to be married, so they can have their kingdom's armies and allegiance. So when the queen, completely unaware of this, freaks out at tyrion for scheming to send her daughter to a specific country, tyrion knows exactly who betrayed him and has them thrown into a dungeon. It was really fascinating and entertaining to watch just how smart tyrion was, but we followed that as it was unfolding, so we already knew "Yeah, grand maester pycelle is puppyed," before it happened. Sure, knowing this show, there's always the chance that at the last second something could have happened to change that, but generally we had a good idea of what was about to happen to the grand maester.

Tywin is different because we don't follow him at all. We just see him interacting with a primary character and then disappearing for an episode or two, to return in another character's story and further their plot. I'm going to use him as an example again, but first I want to point out that I think he makes a great representation of being in between the primary characters and what I in my head refer to as the tertiary world, which is to say, the rest of the world who isn't really involved aside from subplots and being background characters, but really, the world as a whole. And I think it's the most fascinating part of game of thrones. GoT isn't a story about just the primary and secondary people. It's very, very, very world heavy, and that world is going to keep going on with or without these characters. And all of them live inside it.

For example, you end up seeing all these different characters throughout season 3 making casterly rock a serious point of interest. LittleFinger wants to inherit it. Tyrion wants to inherit it. A few characters talk about how impenetrable it is. A few characters talk about how cruel Tywin is to people who oppose him (reigns of castamere), and all of their punishments generally involve being hanged from casterly rock or sumsuch. And Robb wants to invade it.

I remember mentioning all of this to my older brother a month or so before the season ended, that I loved game of thrones for these reasons, and more importantly, that casterly rock was clearly going to be something addressed by the end of the season because of how much all the characters were talking about it, and making plans involving it, but my older brother told me "I wouldn't get my hopes up." I should mention my older brother has read the books fully, or at least I think he's read all of them.

Sure enough, at the beginning of episode nine, Robb officially makes plans to invade Casterly Rock. About that point I figured "he did it, right there! I was right! Was my brother just trying to throw me off or something?" But then of course, episode nine came to an end, and Casterly Rock was very clearly off the table, thanks to Tywin's plotting.

Tywin benefits so, so heavily from being a secondary character in the same way Tyrion would if he were secondary. We didn't see that ending coming, because we weren't following Tywin being a sneaky shit. But most importantly, that's a great example of the tertiary world being ridiculous and flipping everything over on it's head. We could only see what might have been happening in glimpses from the peripherals of our primary vision, and we were lead astray.

Maybe if you mapped out everything you knew relating to the starks and the lannisters you might have been able to predict that the red wedding would have happened. In retrospect, it wouldn't have been that hard to predict Walder Frey was going to do something to get back at them for not making one of his daughters a queen. I think most of us generally predicted Walder making uncle guy marry his ugliest daughter or something at best though. But this is just one example of tertiary world being silly. If you take apart, analyze, map, and rebuild the entire series, you could probably have a good idea of what was to come. It's not like we already have a really terrifying amount of foreshadowing already. Sure, it's "The War of Five Kings," but it's way more than five different forces in conflict. Since the beginning, it's been the Starks, the Lannisters, the Baratheons, the Other Baratheons, and the Greyjoys, just to name the people behind the war of five kings. But then there's daenerys targaryen who had the Dothraki Horde and now her army of freed slaves and dragons and motherfuckery, and the wildling horde, and the white walkers who are being lead by some kind of ice god, who is probably very seriously going to be opposed by the fire god, which is what a lot of this story is building up to. There's even smaller forces just trying to maintain some kind of control, like the brotherhood without banners, and the Night's watch, who is presently the only the standing between the wildlings, the white walkers, and the rest of the known world. And there's probably more that I'm forgetting, but the bottom line is a huge amount of crazy shit is getting ready to unfold. And we're watching it all happen in the peripherals of our primary and secondary vision. And it's going to be fucking nuts.

 

George R.R. Martin really is a master writer. It takes a serious ammount of skill and creativity to make all of this come alive in this way. And the fact that everyone generally says "READ THE BOOKS" to the people that really like the TV Show, just makes me really begin to think "wow, I really need to finish the Hyperion Cantos."

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Posted

Its funny, Robb was neverr actually a perspective character in the books. Most of his stuff we get through Catelyn



You should at least finish Hyperion, so I can talk to you about it. But that aside, who are you favorite five characters?

 

Mine:

1. Sandor

2. Stannis

3. Tywin

4. Varys

5. Jaime

 

I would put obvious people like Dany and Tyrion on this list, but they would obviously be there for their likability. I like these characters, because they're all really complex. Like for a long time, I couldn't figure Sandor out. He was Honorable, and yet cruel at the same time. Every line of dialogue from him just shone new light on who they are. All of them.

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Yeah, I've got hyperion open right now, right at the beginning of Brawne Lamia's story. As for game of thrones, to be honest there's a jillion different characters I like, all for different reasons, and Tywin is really just my default go-to-guy. My older brother generally leans towards Littlefinger. But Sandor is pretty cool, and another of my favs, in that unlike his older brother who has this absolute misandry you can see, Sandor can actually be very compassionate. I don't very much know where I stand with Stannis, because I'm still rewatching Season 2 (after forgetting essentially all of it), but so far to me he just seems very antagonistic. And you don't need to worry about adding Tyrion or Dany or Arya to your list. Everyone has them by default.

Anyways, my favorite five would probably be, in no particular order, omitting Tyrion/Arya/Dany, would be

1. Tywin
2. Brienne

3. Nedd

4. Jon
5. Sandor

And then like Jaimie and Cersei. And I really enjoy the benevolent/malevolent light/dark good/evil duality that goes on between Varys and LittleFinger. And then there's plenty of other great characters, like Brann, and Fatty McReadabook, and the Mormonts, and Davos Seaworth, and Ser Barristan, and Khal Drogo, so on. Like I said, they're all generally likeable. This is far from a definitive "Here's who the best characters are" list. It's really just "Tywin is the guy I spend the most time analyzing and then everyone else."

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Posted

FYI Storm of Swords Part 2: Blood and Gold is the best of the whole lot so far, and I hope you enjoy yourself next season.

pheonix561 likes this

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Posted

I've heard the secondhalf of the book is nuts. I really need to buckle down and finish Clash.

 

As for Stannis, its partly inspired by the books, where he has a few more immediately present likable traits. That plus...FINALLY, someone in westeros is turning their heads towards the north. All this crazy shit is going on up their and everyone's all, "Ladee da, ain't war grand?" While a horde of undead march on the wall

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GUYS whatcher favorite quotes?

Catelyn- You are no knight. You've forsaken every vow you took.
Jaime- So many vows... They make you swear and swear. Defend the king. Obey the King. Obey your father. Protect the innocent. Defend the weak. But what if your father despises the king? What if the king massacres the innocent? No, it's too much. No matter what you do you're forsaking one vow or another.

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