Local rioting and police brutality

[Sahaqiel 1232]

yeh

 

Well I hope this all gets sorted out.  As a side note, do you have an opinion on that homeless killing I linked, or the video with the animator? The ABQ police department released a statement saying it was justified that he'd pulled out a knife and threatened the dog handler AFTER he'd been flashbanged and attacked by a much larger and deadlier force than he at least 20 feet away, WHILE he surrendered willingly. I can offer no justification under any extent. I'm sure that amongst their semi-automatic rifles, one of them had to have a taser, which they did not try once.

 

The incident with Paul Boyd is sickening though, because he was clearly immobile, crawling on the ground. Then there's the banned chokehold killing a guy recently, etc. It's so crazy. The worst I've heard a police officer suffer for straight up murder is being fired, actually. I had to actively look for it though. But practically none of them go to jail for their "mistakes". What is your opinion on being held accountable for your failures when so much is at stake? I know it can be a thankless job, but someone has to police the police, right? It's ridiculous how many "internal investigations" say that the officer is innocent of any wrongdoing.

[Skippy 82]

The homeless one, obvious overuse of force, at most I could see using the flash grenade or a beanbag, I would never recommend that anyone approach anyone holding a blade of any kind.  Blades are always dangerous and kind of get overlooked.  It seems to me ABQ needs to have a serious look into their police force.  In all reality, it seems he was surrendering, if not de-escalating, and they should have allowed him to do so. 

 

And yes, at least one had a taser on his hip.

 

The choke hold one is another one that is less abuse of force, as it is a "soft hands" technique, but they are banned for a reason, there is only one way to do it right and about a million to do it wrong, and doing it wrong can kill someone quickly.  One thing I will say as an aside, many of the videos that seem like brutality, where you see several officers on one person on the ground, is really about the farthest from brutality you can be.  When someone is resisting, there are far fewer injuries, both to the arrested person and the officers when they use these techniques.  That being said, again, you should never place a choke hold on a person as an officer.

 

Part of the issue with prosecution is that the law makes it somewhat hard to prosecute an officer, and part of it comes to jury bias in trial cases.  The public tends to side with police, especially if there is any sort of question as to whether or not there was a threat to the LEO.  Another part of it is that being fired is actually prety horrible for LEO's, simply because it means you are now unhirable,  and many times jail is just as good as a death sentence, not that that is real justification.

 

In all reality, IA is a joke, they are there to maintain liability for the PD, if the action isn't going to be an issue for the PD's finances, the cop will probably walk.  I'd like to see all investigations of police go through state law enforcement, and all investigation of state LEO's to go through a federal agency like the FBI.  Basically, I want someone with no connection to that officer investigating any incidents like this.

 

I have to get some sleep now, I'll be on tomorrow, good chatting with you again Saha.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

You too, good to have input from someone who knows something about law enforcement, especially one as level-headed as you.

[Skippy 82]

Update:

Officer was named as Darren Wilson, six year vet with no disciplinary record.

 

Dispatch records released with the name support backup and an ambulance was called less than 5 minutes after shooting.

 

Also confirms officers were responding to a confirmed and filmed robbery at a convenience store, though not the one that was burnt down.   Also confirmed that Wilson is being treated for injuries sustained in the altercation.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

If he himself seriously called an ambulance five minutes after the fact, and one didn't arrive for over three to four hours, that is pretty disappointing.

 

Not trying to think aggressively here, but lack of disciplinary records and being treated for an altercation don't mean that this guy needed to kill Mike Brown, and it doesn't confirm either side of the story.

[Skippy 82]

The ambulance was actually there, but brown was already declared dead, ambulance couldn't take the body as the medical examiner had not released the scene.

Ambulance came from a non emergency medical call that the officer was at before the call in for the robbery came.

And no, it doesn't, but few people go from no discipline for anything at all to cold blooded murder.

If you see the stills from the robbery, it shows someone who I do not believe is brown, but matches the description, holding what appears to be a handgun. That justifies the initial interaction between brown and the officer, but we have no info beyond that at this time.

[ZuZu 10]

Theres lots of chatter about it

[LLmao ?✊? 1276]

If anyhing is going to win me over to the side of human rights "activists", it's my desire to just appease them so they'll just stop.

I hope that there is so much justice dealt that I never have to hear about this event again. Like puppy, let me shit and pull out my phone on the toilet without hearing about how brave and/or oppressed everyone is.

Edited 19 Aug 2014 by L.L. Bean's Menswear (see edit history)

[Teto 2609]

I wonder when Palestine will be back in style.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

well, the riots and protests are ongoing...

 

also, you'll probably stop hearing about disparities when they stop happening;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

[LLmao ?✊? 1276]

Well I haven't heard about any other disparities since Ferguson. It's not that they're not happening, it's that the other underreported occurrences aren't vehicles for abating white guilt. It's not that the media and internet said "you know what, I've had enough of this!" They're sharing sensationalized and poorly reported articles about how MEAN the cops are and how injustice is BAD in the same way that they'd share some viral cat video. The other occurrences of injustice though, the ones that happen everyday, don't have a hashtag associated with them. They aren't occurrences that you can wear on a (poorly designed) shirt. Nothing about this is symbolic or a "sign of the times". It just goes to show that you don't need big-name news corporations to exploit and sell tragedies.

I just feel like fair-weather humans rights activitists will tell their grand kids about how they singlehandedly defeated racism. "I was there, maaaan", they'll say.

Edited 19 Aug 2014 by L.L. Bean's Menswear (see edit history)

[Sahaqiel 1232]

Right, it's treated like this one event is the source rather than a symptom, which I think is what you're aggravated about. But the riots are about the source, or at least working to remedy it. The shooting itself and the outrage associated with it are a reminder to not just black society, but everyone from disparaged towns to affluent neighborhoods that there is something still wrong about our attitude. I remember in the second grade, standing in our alphabetized line, thinking, "Wow, black people and women haven't had the same rights as white men in the US for only about a hundred years." And I don't think that's enough time to fully recover; that's like a few generations. But some people make it out to be that racism itself collapsed into itself some years ago. And those people are ignorant. People who think racism can be defeated with one turning point today are ignorant.

 

But that's really not what this is about. This one is both warranted and has its heart in the right place. It's not as disgusting and brutal as some worldly conflicts at the moment, but it's one that's toxic to our society, involves people that are supposed to protect us. Introducing new laws for police accountability and enforcing restrictions against excessive force takes the load off of some issues that might otherwise get real, blood-and-flesh people killed, regardless of innocence.

 

And for sure, police brutality isn't isolated to this one event. It's not just murder, and it doesn't just happen every once in awhile. But I'm glad this exists right now because I feel like we're getting closer and closer to cornering an issue that just gets dodged around and swept under the rug far too often. Everyone has their eyes on it, and it's stayed alive for over a week. Most police brutality and racist killings angers people for maybe a couple days and then we never hear about it or care ever again. So I don't think you're justified in your frustrations. Complaining about how annoying it is that you have to frequently see others enraged over something that affects them every single day is pretty much a monument to privilege. 

[Chase 390]

Make them all wear cameras monitored by an outside source. Make taking off the camera an instant dismissal.

[LLmao ?✊? 1276]

I don't think you're justified in your frustrations. Complaining about how annoying it is that you have to frequently see others enraged over something that affects them every single day is pretty much a monument to privilege.

It doesn't affect them every single day. The entire concept of America and the New World is to go away from problems that are not relevant to you. Even further back, humans found shelter to escape the annoyances of insects and weather and heat, etc. If I had to deal with an undesirable situation or person, I would use my resources to go away from that thing or person. It's not privilege, it is adaptability and accountability. People want to go away from pain, that's the basic law of history. It's why anything happens.

I'm not blind to their suffering, it's just not my problem. And I don't have, nor will I ever have, to deal with it or apologize for my class, race, or location where I'm from. Their problems aren't relevant to me and it would be futile to try to make it my problem. If it was happening in my neighborhood, I am sure I would care. Like, I get that relevant people care. You are in the general area of Ferguson. I'm not. Those people are not from the same are, nor do they look like me.

I am mostly annoyed that the Internet has made the world so small. And that we have a focus on national and global culture. In general, we don't care too much about the tragedies of non-Western nations because they're far away and different from us. Why should I care anout Ferguson? Because they're a few states away? Does the collective empathy of the US not extend outside of the US? Is my empathy wavelength supposed to extend to Missouri? I'm supposed to feel pressure to feel it. But what about Palestine? At what mile-marker does my empathy cut off? I think it's all jus exhausting. The internet and global culture in general. That's my gripe.

Edited 20 Aug 2014 by L.L. Bean's Menswear (see edit history)

[Sahaqiel 1232]

pictured: my mom in front of the burned-down QT