Obama, or McCain?

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[quote name='Knuckle' post='160849' date='Aug 9 2008, 03:17 PM']Wars will go on regardless of what Obama says. though Iraq will be abandoned (which is a bad idea), Obama plans to send troops after Osama Bin laden and to take action on Iran, which means more millitary use, and, ultimately, more fighting. I'd rather finish what we started and at least say that we defeated that tyrant Saddam.[/quote]

The Iraqi citizens would prefer Saddam over what USA is pulling off. Did you know that 80% of the victims in the war is civilians?

[quote name='shadowknight' post='160871' date='Aug 9 2008, 03:39 PM']If we pull out of Iraq, we start WWIII. Iraq collapses and breaks into three weak countries, they get taken over by countries with nukes, they all nuke Israel, everybody chooses sides, and the fighting gets worse.[/quote]

I find it more likely that Israel will start the spiral with attacking Iran, with support from American troops. And Iran is the only country in the region that might have nukes, apart from israel that is.

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[quote name='eyeoftruth' post='160990' date='Aug 9 2008, 04:45 AM']The Iraqi citizens would prefer Saddam over what USA is pulling off. Did you know that 80% of the victims in the war is civilians?



I find it more likely that Israel will start the spiral with attacking Iran, with support from American troops. And Iran is the only country in the region that might have nukes, apart from israel that is.[/quote]
Israel wouldn't start it. All of the Arab countries around Israel hate it and it's people for taking down Palistine, and that only happened because the Palestinians weren't happy with Israel getting it's land back. Israel only fights after being attacked. The Arab nations hate Israel, especially Iran. The Iranian people think that Israel is evil and deserves to be destroyed. They hate America for supporting Israel and want to destroy us too.

Al Quaida is dealing with getting Nukes from Pakistan, and they'll probably get into one of the parts if Iraq breaks up. Edited by shadowknight (see edit history)

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[quote name='shadowknight' post='161006' date='Aug 10 2008, 01:20 AM']Israel wouldn't start it. All of the Arab countries around Israel hate it and it's people for taking down Palistine, and that only happened because the Palestinians weren't happy with Israel getting it's land back.[/quote]

Excuse me? Israel hasn't had that land in a thousand years, way too many generations for anyone to recall. The Palestinians are now being discriminated by Isreal in every way. They have every right to be unhappy.

[quote name='shadowknight' post='161006' date='Aug 10 2008, 01:20 AM']Israel only fights after being attacked. The Arab nations hate Israel, especially Iran. The Iranian people think that Israel is evil and deserves to be destroyed. They hate America for supporting Israel and want to destroy us too.

Al Quaida is dealing with getting Nukes from Pakistan, and they'll probably get into one of the parts if Iraq breaks up.[/quote]

Israel completed several military tests where the goal was too simulate an attack on Iran. They have also been meeting up with USA where they discussed a plausible attack on Iran. Israel hates all the middle-eastern countries.

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Israel is the most sacred place in the world for the Jews. They have every right to be there. After WWII the United Nations divided the area up equally between Israel and Palistine with Jeruselum as a neutral zone, but the Palistinians and the surrounding Arab nations weren't happy with that. They attacked Israel, and Israel beat them. They won the war, but allowed the Palestinians to stay in the west bank and the Gaza Strip, and allowed them in Jeruselum to the Dome of the Rock. All the nations around Israel hate the nation. The Israelies and Palistinians had the opportunity to each have part of the land, but the Palistinians weren't satisfied.

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No matter what is done,there will always be fighting.It is a part of human nature.If we pull out,we'll just have another 9/11.If we never went in there in the first place,we'd have a 9/11,a 1/29,7/12,etc.They would just keep on attacking,and more things like 9/11 would happen.Who knows?It might have even gotten so bad that they could've ended up occupying U.S. territory.Open your eyes,people.What needs to be done needs to be done.

Based on what I've told you,tell me how things would be at the moment if we never fought back.


Also,think about nuclear power.Think about how much of it we have and how useful it could be.Oil is becoming a liability.

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Who are these people and why are they so important, hahah i am Canadian i think i should know these people but i really dont care, i never turn the tv on.....so what are these people running for something or what???

PS just jokes i dont know who should win but i was kinda thinking that Obama had the upper hand on things because of the way he is with the whole "there is no racism" stuff, i don tknow much about the whole "president" thing.

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[quote name='Figurehead' post='161285' date='Aug 9 2008, 09:08 PM']Your average 12-year-old seasoned war general explained this for all of us. Thanks.

Also...
What do you mean "we"?

:([/quote]
Your average 12-year-old seasoned war general seems to realize what would have happened.In a sense,the general is correct.Something to that degree would happen.Keep in mind that while our in the Middle-East,they hold the enemy at bay.Like I said before,imagine what it would be like if everything happened as I explained it would.Image what 2008 would be like.

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I'm 15, thank you very much. By "we" I mean the United States,and I know what I'm talking about. I may not be a general in the war, but I have enough foresight to know that something similar to that would happen. The events of the past also make the intentions of the surrounding nations quite obvious.

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[quote name='shadowknight' post='161090' date='Aug 10 2008, 08:04 AM']Israel is the most sacred place in the world for the Jews. They have every right to be there. After WWII the United Nations divided the area up equally between Israel and Palistine with Jeruselum as a neutral zone, but the Palistinians and the surrounding Arab nations weren't happy with that. They attacked Israel, and Israel beat them. They won the war, but allowed the Palestinians to stay in the west bank and the Gaza Strip, and allowed them in Jeruselum to the Dome of the Rock. All the nations around Israel hate the nation. The Israelies and Palistinians had the opportunity to each have part of the land, but the Palistinians weren't satisfied.[/quote]

Jerusalem is also holy to the Muslims. And Christians. Just because it's holy to someone doesn't mean they have the right to invade the country. The discrimination towards Palestinians reach new heights everyday, and that you can't defend. The Gaza strip is fucked and basically gets fucked by the Israeli army, same goes for the west bank. The Palestinians has no other option then to fight back, using guerrilla tactics. Freedom-fighters. Or Terrorism, from your view.

@HylianForrunner

Al Quaida has never been bigger, more popular and more capable of fighting then what they are now. This is because of the US' failed war, which has the opposite effect of what wanted. Instead of saving the people, it has turned the people against them. What do you do when your family gets killed by American troops? You want to fight back. You join the resistance.

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Yes, I know that it is holy for Muslims and Christians too. I just said the Jews because I was trying to explain why they have the right to be there. They didn't invade, in 1947 the land was divided between Israel and Pakistan with the holiest city for both of them as neutral land. Both of them had the same amount of land, but the Palistinians wanted all of the land back. The Israelites were happy to at least have some of their promised land after so many years. Then the Arab nations invaded them, and they defended themselves. They actually beat all of the nations surrounding them, but they didn't force the palistinians out completely, even after what they and the other Arab Nations did. They allowed them to stay in those two camps and are now working on setting up a new palistine for them. The camps that exist are danger zones because of the Palistinians that gather against the Israelies and throw rocks, moltov roostertails, and small explosives at them. The israelies don't use real bullets unless they feel that their life is really threatened.

It is the holiest place in the world for Jews and the third holiest for Muslims (after madena and the great madrasa), and that's why they were both allowed to have part of the land.

Also, palistinians seem to enjoy throwing things and spitting off of the "wailing wall", the only remaining part of the second Jewish temple, and hitting the Jews that are praying below. Does that sound like a nation that is innocent and helpless?

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[quote name='Figurehead' post='161366' date='Aug 10 2008, 03:04 AM']Does anyone know what "would" means?[/quote]
Give me one serious answer.

Throughout history,the Muslims have always been determined.In less then 200 years,they were able to take over the entire Arabian Peninsula,the Persian Empire,etc.What makes you think that they would stop with 9/11?


Eyeoftruth
That just makes them want to attack us even more,doesn't it? Edited by HylianForrunner (see edit history)

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You guys are fully aware that Tingle is voting democrat, right? Do you really want to vote with him?

But on a serious note, I wanna keep my guns! Obama wants to take em away! Im not a murderer, im a HUNTER. I kill deer. I eat deer. They taste very good. Obama wants to take away the guns so we are defenseless against any of the crap hes gonna pull on us. Anyone live in Michigan? Other than me? You know how bad it is under a socialist, right? Thats what Obama is! No jobs, high taxes, waiting 6 months for a MRI scan because you think you have cancer? Thats what this country will be like under Obama. He wont give tax breaks to oil companies, he thinks its wrong. Hes wrong! The average oil companies profits are taxed 70%-99%. Thats why our gas prices are so high! I should stop now, before I get in trouble..... Edited by Doubleagent (see edit history)

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[quote name='shadowknight' post='161379' date='Aug 11 2008, 01:20 AM']Yes, I know that it is holy for Muslims and Christians too. I just said the Jews because I was trying to explain why they have the right to be there. They didn't invade, in 1947 the land was divided between Israel and Pakistan with the holiest city for both of them as neutral land. Both of them had the same amount of land, but the Palistinians wanted all of the land back. The Israelites were happy to at least have some of their promised land after so many years. Then the Arab nations invaded them, and they defended themselves. They actually beat all of the nations surrounding them, but they didn't force the palistinians out completely, even after what they and the other Arab Nations did. They allowed them to stay in those two camps and are now working on setting up a new palistine for them. The camps that exist are danger zones because of the Palistinians that gather against the Israelies and throw rocks, moltov roostertails, and small explosives at them. The israelies don't use real bullets unless they feel that their life is really threatened.[/quote]

In 1947 UN pushed the Palestinians out of their own country even though they had been living there for generations. I have no problem with understanding how that can cause riots. They are also being discriminated in a lot of other ways, the wall, house being destroyed, rockets against civilian targets and being denied to travel in certain parts of the country. The Israelies use rubber bullets in some occasions, but that doesn't justify poo. They bomb civilian targets, and constantly terrorize the people of the west bank and Gaza strip.

[quote name='shadowknight' post='161379' date='Aug 11 2008, 01:20 AM']It is the holiest place in the world for Jews and the third holiest for Muslims (after madena and the great madrasa), and that's why they were both allowed to have part of the land.[/quote]

This I am aware of.
[quote name='shadowknight' post='161379' date='Aug 11 2008, 01:20 AM']Also, palistinians seem to enjoy throwing things and spitting off of the "wailing wall", the only remaining part of the second Jewish temple, and hitting the Jews that are praying below. Does that sound like a nation that is innocent and helpless?[/quote]

First of all, no nation is innocent and helpless. You can't judge a whole nation like that. And that is why the situation is so complicated. The Israeli army has done horrible things, and so has certain Palestinian groups.

Palestinians don't enjoy doing stuff like that. They are a people that literary has been pushed to the edge, and that of course results in desperate actions like that.

@HylianForrunner

Yes, and the situation is complicated now, what I tried to say is that the war actually has helped Al Quaida grow. I doubt USA would have seen any more attacks after 9/11 if they hadn't attacked half of the middle-eastern countries.

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[quote name='Doubleagent' post='161433' date='Aug 11 2008, 07:54 AM']You guys are fully aware that Tingle is voting democrat, right? Do you really want to vote with him?

But on a serious note, I wanna keep my guns! Obama wants to take em away! Im not a murderer, im a HUNTER. I kill deer. I eat deer. They taste very good. Obama wants to take away the guns so we are defenseless against any of the crap hes gonna pull on us. Anyone live in Michigan? Other than me? You know how bad it is under a socialist, right? Thats what Obama is! No jobs, high taxes, waiting 6 months for a MRI scan because you think you have cancer? Thats what this country will be like under Obama. He wont give tax breaks to oil companies, he thinks its wrong. Hes wrong! The average oil companies profits are taxed 70%-99%. Thats why our gas prices are so high! I should stop now, before I get in trouble.....[/quote]

haha "You know how bad it is under a socialist, right? "

I myself live in a social democracy. The right wing call our government socialistic. Still, I know things is a hell of a lot better here than what they are over in the States.

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[quote name='shadowknight' post='160871' date='Aug 8 2008, 08:39 PM']If we pull out of Iraq, we start WWIII. Iraq collapses and breaks into three weak countries, they get taken over by countries with nukes, they all nuke Israel, everybody chooses sides, and the fighting gets worse.[/quote]

How did Isreal get pulled into this?

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