Ivo-goji
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Posts posted by Ivo-goji
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What we need is to gather together all Vio-related texts to create a Vio Bible. The Old Testament of Vio Milanor (in forsight that a New Testament will also eventually be written) therefore.
We shall start with this profile of Vio's robotic duplicate to work as a template for maping Vio's awesomeness.
Name: Many. Call me Ivo.
Symbol: A pair of curly shells incircled by a dragon biting its own tail.
Home: Travels all over creation. Never in one place very long.
Alignment: Good, Lawful.
Level of Divinity: Intermediate
Worshipers: None. Is occasionally called upon to repel evil spirits or cast curses, but is not worshipped. There is a small order of followers that observe my teachings and invoke my name to recieve power, but worship other gods.
Domain: All theories concerning fandom of any kind, Doritos, and overly analystic behavior. Having power over all fandom theories, I therefore have some minor influence over certain fandoms, such as Godzilla and Sonic the Hedgehog.
Favored weapon: My words are like a double-edged sword, capable of dividing marrow from bone, and causing the mountains to quake and fall to rubble. I have vast stores of information at my disposal as well.
Dogma: Knowledge is valued above all precious things. Physical pleasure is a distraction from the gaining of power and truth. Faith never remains consistant- it either withers or it grows. There is no tolerance; only acceptance and rejection. There is no ignorance; only wisdom and foolishness. There is no reality; only faith and illusion. There is no interpretation; only Truth and Lies. Rule One of Godhood: Speak softly, but carry a big stick.
Clergy and Temples: No temples have ever been built in my honor. The small number of followers that acknowledge me typically set up small alters of pine, copper, and smoothed stones from a running river to give offerings of Doritos and other spicy foods, for rituals or in thanks for my assistance. They all wear green and hang ornaments possessing my symbol and a Kaiju amulet outside of their house to protect it from evil spirits and misfortune.
Special: I went to diety school for 15,000,000,000 years, and still fell short of the requirments for having the power to create my own universe or have an infinite number of children. Something about being too self-absorbed...
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I wasn't trying to be insulting, nor was I trying to get a point across. I was just posting.
One doesn't need to try to come off as inconsiderate. Not having any points to communicate to anyone doesn't make it much better either. The percieved insult serves no purpose to any, other than amusement.
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Wait, that doesn't make sense. If I am your robotic duplicate, then that would mean that I too am a god (or semi-devine at least). Arcane and Silves must also be the one true god, because they past and future versions of you. So there are actually four true gods...
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Isn't everything on the internet offensive to somebody in some way? It obviously wasn't their intention to offend you. Let it go.
*shrugs* M'kay.
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Thanks for insulting an object of worship to get your opinions accross to random people on the internet. I'm sure that doesn't offend anybody at all.
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You guys all make great points. 'Cept Ivo. It was a good point, but not too entertaining. Kinda dry.
Haha, just kidding. I appreciate all of your input!
I have forseen this.
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Simple. The temples take advantage of their elements. Therefore, the bosses, minions of Ganon, must be creatures that can inflitrate the temples and deal with whatever obstacle the sage or the environment throws at it. A worm tunnels underground, meaning the wind cannot harm it. Same goes for Jalhalla, a ghost who can phase through solid objects, so what ever earth-base defense the temple may have is rendered useless.
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You mean reading all of this? Yeah, this debate is pretty oversized. It would likey wipe out the remaining rain forests if one tried to print it all out...
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Holy goodness, can you not quote whole huge posts?
Sorry.
Eiji Auonuma directed TP and has knowledge of the Zelda universe we don't have. Miyamoto didn't call him out for lying, so we're all set. I mean, the two are best of bros.
Also, one major retcon is the Picori's laying of items in shrubs and grass and stuff. I don't know how far they went with it.
Well, yeah, you have a point there.
I just dislike retcons. Espeacially when it comes to games with overly complex backstories like ALttP and Zelda II. It is insanely hard to discern what has been changed and what has been left alone. It is only worse when such an arrangment was not necessary.>_<
How far does it go? Does this mean the hearts you find scattered all over the place are actually there and not just a game mechanic? Vaguness seems to be used to give the developers more freedom with the storyline and how Link interacts with the game world.
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At first I was afraid Stan Lee had died or something. This is not quite as depressing, but still very replusive. Racism indeed abounded in comics for a long time. Thankfully, it has disappeared, and characters such as Tyroc no longer exist. Too bad we don't see super heroes fighting Nazis like in yea olden times.
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Good to know my failure made someone happy.
..... Wait, no, that didn't come out right.....
Good to know one of my topics made someone happy.
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Okay, first of all, there's no reason the people wouldn't know that Link time traveled to save Hyrule. However, I'll go along with it and say they had no idea. The day Link set out to save the world, the day that Link actually set out to become a hero, was what day? Was it after he awoke in the temple of time, or was it in Kokiri Forest? I'd say it was the latter. Link was able to obtain all three spiritual stones and the ocarina of time, something only the true "chosen hero" was supposed to be able to do. Plus, Link was able to pull the Master Sword out as a child. True, the sages locked him in for 7 years because they thought he wasn't quite old enough, but was he or was he not able to pull the Master Sword out as a child? You have your answer. Wind Waker Link is more likely the age of Young Link, and he can still be the legendary hero's "true" age. If Wind Waker Link is as old as Adult Link, the argument is moot.
Second, you say that the Child time line fits Wind Waker's back story better than the Adult time line. Okay, but you haven't considered everything. Wind Waker tells of Ganondorf rising to power, and Link rising up to stop him. This only happens in the Adult side of the timeline. Link does stop Ganon and seals him away in the Sacred Realm. Zelda sends Link back to relive his childhood. Sometime down the line, Ganon escapes. The people expect Link to come back, but Link can't come back because he was sent back to his own time. So, the people pray to the gods for salvation, and the gods decide to flood the land. Those that survived carried on the story of Link and his time traveling escapades.
The answer is fairly obvious, I think. Link indeed does take it back with him when he goes back in time. There is no Link in the future, then, so the triforce piece of courage is split into 8 pieces and scattered. The world is flooded, and 100 years later, a new Link with no relation to the old one must gather the triforce of courage. Remember that Hyrule is fairly dead, at this point. Everything is stone, unmoving. The fact that the triforce even remains could be considered a blessing. You're thinking is hindered by only using one time line again. You're correct in thinking that he wouldn't lose his heroic qualities, as he still has the triforce when he returns (There's no proof of this, but I will provide evidence). In Twilight Princess, Link already has the triforce of courage. How can this be? It must mean he is a descendent of Ocarina of Time Link. That, or there is another Zelda game to be made. However, there have been no announcements of a prequel to Twilight Princess, so we must work with what we have, and that is the only possible solution that fits in with the timeline.
Link failed to save everyone in the Adult timeline, only because he didn't exist in it. A new Link was born in order to protect the world. Wind waker Link. You're reading too deep into it. The creators have only spoken of this split timeline, they haven't said anything about any others.
As I said before, Wind Waker Link is the new Link that is rising up to defeat Ganon. Because when Ocarina of Time Link went back in time, there was no Link left. Link of that bloodline didn't exist. So a new hero, Wind Waker Link, had to be born in order to save the world. Wind Waker Link has no relation whatsoever to Ocarina of Time Link, that is stated plainly in the game multiple times.
This whole paragraph makes little sense. You're rambling. Basically, you're wondering how no one noticed that there were multiple Links, and you're also wondering how the backstory of Wind Waker could work with a split timeline. It doesn't matter how no one noticed multiple Links, as that could apply to both a split and single timeline. I already explained above how the backstory fits in. You have a fairly weak argument when you resort to "crazy mixed up world of a single time line" as your defense against the split time line.
Never ignore canon. Ever. Also, you don't know if it will be dropped or not. Your theory is full of holes. I think you tried too hard to discredit the split timeline theory.
Tackling those other points now.
I'll take that on people's knowledge of Link's age. Although WW Link almost certainly is not the same age as Adult Link. It is plausible for knowledge of Link's age to survive up till that point. As is knowledge of his time traveling. Of note, I was speaking of how the Hero of Time is described as "traveling through time to defeat Ganon" sounded more like he came from the future to defeat him the past (similar to what happened in the Child timeline), while in the Adult Timeline he merely fell asleep, the time traveling acting as a quieter assistance in his quest. But anyway, your explanation is valid.
Details concerning what Link did after returning to the past are sketchy. He apparently performed heroic deeds that went down in legend before Majora's Mask occured. He is also responsible for Ganondorf's defeat, however it might have played out. The same actions could be ascribed to him, though I admit only remotely.
If Link takes the Triforce back in time with him, then where does this Triforce of the future come from? And way does it need to be broken into pieces? To protect it, perhaps. But that doesn't explain where they got it from. And I agree with your thoughts regarding Twilight Princess and the Hero's bloodline. That is the most likey explanation as to what happened to it after Ocarina of Time.
If one split occured, what is to stop a whole mess of others from cropping up? Link does more than one trip through time. Why wouldn't other timelines exist? Unless Zelda sending him back had somthing to do with it, there is no obvious force peventing multiple branches to form. Unless they can't form at all, that is.
*shrugs* Okay, I'll buy that. It is still kinda strange though.
I acknowledge defeat on this point. Yep, falls apart altogether.
As I said, canon contridicts itself all the time. We have to ignore some things every now and then in order to create functioning timelines. No, I don't know if it will be dropped. But the developers take liberties with their story telling as it is. I don't see Nintendo keeping with anything solid regarding continuity forever.
Now that ain't even fair.
Also, I told you. This is called Retconning. They are editing their own series and just assuming you'll pick up on it.
Also, his series, his universe. Who is supposed to be the official here? Miyamoto is practically a Nintendo representative. His word is final. If he didn't consult with the design team of the series, who are we expected to believe? The design team doesn't appear. Miyamoto represents the voice of his series.
Fine. Retcon it up. Major backstory elements of the Legend of Zelda and Zelda II: The Adventures of Link are now non-canon. Can any theory or timeline that uses information from these two games be considered valid if what aspects were altered are unknown? How much must be changed to fit them between OoT and ALttP? And what of other games? How far does the retconning extend? Enough that we can actually be confident regarding what is true and what is no longer canon? Also, if Miyamoto is the final word of all things in the Zelda Universe, why is it we are arguing over the statements of Eiji Auonuma?
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I am trying to respond, but I keep getting booted off the internet.....
Lionheart, I'll address you other points in a moment. However, first I'm going to nit-pick. Not everybody knows that Zelda is illogical. The point of creating timelines is trying to find an order that IS logical. So it is worth bring up. But yeah, I'm rambling at this point.
That is what I am doing. Assuming that there isn't one. My whole point is that the split timeline has more things wrong with it than a single timeline- not that the single timeline has no flaws and should be acknowledged no matter what the creator's say, but that the creator's have errored. They are only human- they are going to error and are not going to stick to same plan religiously. They have already broken away from previously established ideas and concepts. Who is to say they will stick to this one? Their opinions change. What the games and manuals say does not. If a more logical timeline can be reached then what the developers have stated, then it should be okay to pursue one.
I am aware of this. I'm only pointing out that the popular placement of ALttP in the Child Timeline prior to the release of Twilight Princess no longer works very well. Once again, I was being a moron attacking the split timeline and getting off track.
You are correct, I tried WAY too hard. This could have done in a much more organized and civil manner.
Hold up now, you just stated that the Song of Storms Paradox was contridictory to canon and could be ignored. Accepting every canon fact in existance is frankly not possible. There is too much conflict within the series for that to work. I mean small things, but still canon facts. If one can be ignored, why not others? As I have already pointed out, the developers have also ignored canon. Unless they create a perfect, absolute timeline that covers all the games, there will still be holes that require ignoring certain pieces of canon in order to work out.
And yes this was written horribly, I know. Many of my points are weak, there is an insane amount of rambling and pointless asides, I know, I know. I put off posting it for a month because I really felt uncomfortable with it. Probably only posted it all because it would be a waste just to let the whole dang article sit on my computer forever. But bare with me.
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Miyamoto's order is comprised of about two titles?
All he said is that OoT was first in the timeline, and I don't recall much else.
His series, his universe.
Nintendo Power: Where do all the Zelda games fall into place when arranged chronologically by their stories?
Miyamoto: OoT is the first story, then the original Legend of Zelda, then Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, and finally A Link to the Past. It's not very clear where Link's Awakening fits in--it could be anytime after Ocarina of Time. --1998
That is Miyamoto's order. OoT is the first game- good, logical. It gives Hyrule, Ganondorf, and the Triforce origins. The original Legend of Zelda comes next. Okay, that's reasonable. Origin-less Ganon is running around in boar form with his own slice of the origin-less Triforce in the origin-less land of Hyrule that is apparently suffering chaos and mayhem dispite once being in much better shape. Next comes Zelda II. Sure, naturally. It's the sequal to the last game. Then comes A Link to the Past- Whoa, back up. That game gives it's own origin for the Triforce, Ganon, and land of Hyrule. Hyrule was made by Goddess, who made the Hylians, who now rule over that land, so says OoT. No conflict there. Ganon was once a man named Ganondorf, leader of a band of thieves, and the one who first entered the Sacred Realm to make off with the Triforce. That works out easily enough... besides that fact that everything Ganondorf did in OoT that lines up with the events described in ALttP were erased from time. But hay, there is room to work around that. But what about the Triforce? OoT states that the Triforce was in the Sacred Realm since the world began (more or less). ALttP says the same (completely). Ganon, with his band of thieves, were the ones who entered the Sacred Realm and pilfered the Triforce off to Hyrule, which resulted in a war that had Ganon imprisoned by a Seven Sages. Again, working around the time travel issue, this fits fine. Except the story ends there and doesn't pick up again until ALttP. The plots of the first game and Zelda II don't fit between them at all.
Also, more importantly, the backstories of those two games don't mesh with what Oot and ALttP has going on. According to the story of the first two games, the Triforce has been in Hyrule for hundreds of years. ALttP states that it has never entered the kingdom since the time of the Imprisoning War. However, it is certainly in Hyrule after ALttP takes place. Zelda I and II make no mention of an Imprisoning War or Sacred Realms. Ganon has to steal the Triforce again before the start of the game (the Royal Family has all three pieces), but all sequals to OoT state that he holds on to at least part of it after swiping it from the Sacred Realm. This situation can only happen following A Link to the Past. OoT>Zelda I>Zelda II>ALttP is not logical. OoT>ALttP>Zelda I>Zelda II flows quite smoothly (in comparison). The only reason I can think that Miyamoto would come up with such flawed timeline is that he doesn't really care very much what order they go in.
He also says that Link's Awakening can occur anywhere after OoT. Evidently, he didn't put much thought into which one it would be the most likely to act as a sequal to. Perhaps the mastermind behind the story in the manual of A Link to the Past and the plot of Link's Awakening, Mr. Koizumi would know more about that?
It is not Miyamoto's universe. It is a number of game designers and creators over more than a decade who are responsible for the series' storyline.
Besides, that order is ancient, most people dismissed it a long, long time ago...
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*gives Cirt death-hug* THANK YOU! I FEEL REBOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRN!
I know Nintendo's sort of screwed up its own timeline, but Nintendo HAS retconned before, and an official statement from Eiji Auonuma is good enough for me. Creators' words are final, no matter how messed up it seems.
Except Nintendo has given timeline statements that are completely contridictory. One creator's feelings may not remain the same for very long, especially if there are flaws in their logical. Remember Miyamoto's Order?
Granted, Auonuma has clearly put more thought into the whole timeline business, and Miyamoto frankly doesn't care about what order the games go in. My view is still the same, retcon or no. The split model is a mistake. Unless a game is made that 100% proves the split timeline beyond any shadow of doubt, other timeline models are still possible. Though that will probably happen soon enough anyway.....
Zelda could have told everybody about Child Link's time-traveling heroism. Also, Link had the Master Sword when Zelda sent him back, which he could have used as proof of what he had seen in the future. The Triforce of Courage was split into the eight pieces when Zelda sent Link back in time.
Link has the Master Sword when he goes back time? Interesting. Would not that mean that there is no Master Sword in the Adult Timeline? Link ran off with it after all. Yet there is clearly a Blade of Evil's Bane in Wind Waker.....
Wonder how I never thought of that....
When did we see this happen?
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Don't rush a post when your really tired. Failure waits to bushwack you and eat your brain....
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Splite? SPLITE? WHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY????????????????????????????????? It just isn't right! It's just not right.....
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When Nintendo officially announced that the so called “Split Time-line Theory
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I notice some people change their avatar or sig every other week, while some seem to almost never alter a single thing. Hence this.
I change my sig pretty much on when ever I get bored with it. This can be anywhere from nearly a month to a couple of days. My avatar I change about once a month, again when I've grown bored with the old image. Everything else I just leave alone.
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Best Dressed Avatar.
But seriously, maybe a "Most Helpful Member" award, or "Funnest Topics" award.
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The time line covers the following games in the following order:
Ocarina of Time
Twilight Princess
Minish Cap
Four Swords
Four Swords Adventures
A Link to the Past
Oracle of Ages/Oracle of Seasons
The Legend of Zelda (Classic NES game)
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Wow, some one commented.
Maybe. How old has he you think in the first game? Ten, twelve, some where along those lines? He was sixteen in Zelda II, meaning about 4 or 6 years passed between the two games. But then we don't know exactly when Ganon's followers started hunting him for his blood. That would be the bulk of the conflict, droves of monsters sacking towns in search of Link so they could sacrifice him.
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Because he feels he has no greater purpose in existance.
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Fire. It's in the best shape at the end of the series. Better tech, better unity, better naval force, only air force on the planet, and unlike every other nation, it hasn't experienced near-total destruction and mass slaughter. The Air Nomads were completely wiped out. The Water Tribes are pathetically few in number and dieing on the edge of the world. The Earth Kingdom has suffered countless casualties and bore the brunt of the Fire Nation's offensive for most of the century. They are divided, easily corrupted, and most of the nation is reeking of poverty. The Fire Nation has inacted many crimes against the world, but as a state it is the richest and most advanced.
Discrediting the Split Timeline
in General Zelda
Posted
What are you talking about? This has been some of the most fun I've ever had on this website!