Prayer

[Aatch 0]

With the especially difficult task of trying to keep this clean while I post... here goes.

Prayer. The cure all solution for <religious text> bashers everywhere. "Hunger in Zimbabwe, lets pray for food", "Disease in Sudan, lets pray for health".

I know that this doesn't apply to every <religious denomination> out there. But when I see people asking me to "pray" for something, I see red.

Now, for the question, what does prayer do? Well the preachers, whatever their religion may be, will tell you it is asking god to help the people involved with whatever is wrong with them (odd thing to ask a loving, omnipotent god, but thats not the issue). The reality is that is takes good, willing people and forces them to sit in churches and think they are helping. If anything good happens, God(s) are thanked and the prayee's feel like they did something.

Bull-- Err.. Droppings, they did. The people that did something are the people working their asses off, digging wells, teaching skills, providing resources and helping the sick and injured. They are there, on the front line, doing something about what is happening the world. I dont care if they are Jewish, Christian, athiest, pagan, or whatever. Its the fact they are doing something that matters, which is more than the hundreds of millions of praying people around the world are doing.

Please note that I am /not/ attacking a specific religion, just all of them.

[Odin 0]

They say prayer is for asking god(or whatever higher being(s) one believes in) to give us help and guidance to make our lives better, I personally believe it can help. But from a logical standpoint, If you take religion out of the equation, praying is to bring self-comfort so they can give themselves hope, willpower, etc. It's like a placebo. (If you don't think of prayer from a religious viewpoint)

[ZuZu 10]

Thats true. I didnt think of that, its very possible to simply be a placebo for those who think it'll help:

'I've prayed, my god will listen and answer my prayers.'

Thus, they believe they have their god behind them and have more determination / motivation to do whatever it is they wanted.

my gripe with religion is actually the going to church itself.

perhaps its just me but i dont see the point in wasting a morning each and every week in church.

and now they're even going as far as internet churches, such as the internet church of christ.

my Sunday is generally reserved for hang overs, sleeping in or both, and i would certainly not rather get up and go to church

perhaps some people are more productive after they've had a religious booster.

[Gingerlink 2]

there was a youtube video somewhere about praying to a bottle of milk that proved this point very well, you can probabbly find it somewhere...

[eyeoftruth 2]

Please note that I am /not/ attacking a specific religion, just all of them.

as for the rest of your post; I couldn't agree more.

[Aatch 0]

But saying that prayer is a placebo doesn't justify it. No more than giving saline pills to a cancer sufferer is justified.

If prayer makes people more confident and motivated, then it could very well be said that their religion is an emotional crutch. If these people could learn to be confident without the church, wouldn't that be better.

Its the ties to the church and the emotional and psychological crutch it gives people. And its not a good thing. It means that if the church crumbles, all these people will collapse. Like staying on crutches, it gives your ailment time to heal, but it wont fully heal without walking on it. Same way that people can use the church to gain their confidence, but not use it a source of it.

[Cel 0]

I'm christain, so my opininion is not wanted here.

[Gingerlink 2]

no, it very much is wanted, we need someone from the other side to actually make this more of a "discussion" and balance things out...

[eyeoftruth 2]

I'm christain, so my opininion is not wanted here.

Of course your opinion is wanted. Why wouldn't it be?

[Ryu 7]

...

you REALLY don't want me here....i might have an outburst like in 'Your Orientation' again....i really don't want that to happen, so im canceling any ideas of this topic and posting in it. good day. 'leaves'

[ZuZu 10]

Cel-shaded link & The dark one -

As far as I can tell your talking to a bunch of either Atheists or people from a 'relaxed' religious perspective, and we have different views to what you may have, which is why we were asking what your views are. You're opinions are wanted and appreciated.

[Knuckle 484]

But saying that prayer is a placebo doesn't justify it. No more than giving saline pills to a cancer sufferer is justified.

If prayer makes people more confident and motivated, then it could very well be said that their religion is an emotional crutch. If these people could learn to be confident without the church, wouldn't that be better.

Its the ties to the church and the emotional and psychological crutch it gives people. And its not a good thing. It means that if the church crumbles, all these people will collapse. Like staying on crutches, it gives your ailment time to heal, but it wont fully heal without walking on it. Same way that people can use the church to gain their confidence, but not use it a source of it.

Having crutches like that is a part of life. We all rely on things like family and friends to empower us. People could try to find emotional confidence on their own, but it's always better to have help. Plus, if you ever have troubles or get depressed, and you dont have anyone like the church or family to fall on, then you will have a harder time trying to get better from your depression/problems. In fact, a lot of religious people have the church as their only source of comfort if everyone else has failed them. Prayer is kind of like a way of finding this same confidence you get from others without being next to the person. Also, I wouldn't worry about the church crubling; It's been around for centuries and hasn't gone anywhere.

To sum this all up, the church may be an emotional cruth, but I think it is a necessary tool in healing people and is something a lot of people can rely on for comfort if they have nowhere else to go.

[Link Player 0]

They say prayer is for asking god(or whatever higher being(s) one believes in) to give us help and guidance to make our lives better, I personally believe it can help. But from a logical standpoint, If you take religion out of the equation, praying is to bring self-comfort so they can give themselves hope, willpower, etc. It's like a placebo. (If you don't think of prayer from a religious viewpoint)

I couldn't have said it better.