Labels.

[Chameleon 0]

So, I posted a comment in this thread "bashing" Catholics. It unexpectedly started a stupid conversation. Apparently it was offensive.

Here's what I don't get. Why the hell would you label yourself? If you call yourself a Catholic and I insult Catholicism that's your problem. I bet most Catholics would argue they don't even strictly follow the doctrine. Oh, hey, guess what. That means they aren't really Catholic. So why classify yourself? A vital step toward not being a stupid fundamentalist is to not generalize your ideas with things such as labels. You can be your own person!

I'd like to mention this doesn't just apply to religion; people label in politics and such as well.

Also, I want to apologize to the Catholics. I'm sorry the church is corrupt on so many different levels. Obviously it's not your fault for associating yourself with that, etc.

[Duke Abercrombie 0]

I'm a Catholic; I may be insulted if you insult Catholics; but you insulting Catholics is your problem, not mine.

I do not follow the Doctrine; but I am a Catholic; but I am not really a Catholic; although I am.

The Church may be corrupt, but we aren't corrupt. Uh..yeah.

Just sayin.

[Chase 390]

Hey, it's okay, I'm sure you believe in something much greater than a god who wants to save humanity, and your cause is much more important.

Wait, what was it you believe in again?

I label myself because it was how I was raised, and Catholicism is close to my heart. THAT is why I take offense, you are bashing the values that my family has taught me. No, I don't agree with everything the Church teaches, but the Church teaches about God, and so I stand behind it. I'm not the most religious person out there, but I won't sit and let you talk bad about the things I hold dear.

My other label, Christian, is much more important than the other, though I'm sure you don't like that one either. The foundation of everything I believe to be truth is within that label, so it's a big deal for me. I'm sorry if you can't see it the same way, but don't go acting like you're high and mighty because you're playing the waiting game.

[Skippy 82]

Personally, I don't understand why people get so upset about how you classify your religion. I am not Catholic, I'm not Baptist, I'm not Lutheran, I'm a Christian, and just so at that. If you were to sit down and talk with Jesus, and ask him what religion he was, he would respond that he wasn't, he just worshiped His Father, God. We all do the same thing in different ways, so why get upset and aggravated at the nitty gritty and keep yourself defined as one label?

Yes, Catholicism has a lot I don't agree with, but that isn't a reason to decry it's followers. It isn't their fault that church leadership is corrupt, in fact, they are generally the most outspoken group about it, you can't talk to a member of High Clergy who won't admit that the Church is corrupt, and many of the Clergy have lost there way because despite what they are, they are still men, and subject to the laws, emotions and temptations of man.

Worship whatever God you worship, how you want to worship, when you want to worship, and that will be enough. Faith cannot be mass produced, and that is the church's problem, all of them.

So that being said, Labels are stupid, all the time.

[Teto 2609]

Chameleon is fun. <3

Anyway, I don't label myself as a religion, because I base my beliefs on loads of different things and piece them together like a jigsaw until it makes some sense and all the pieces fit well enough. So ya, I don't label other people either.

I'm nice person.

[Chameleon 0]

Hey, it's okay, I'm sure you believe in something much greater than a god who wants to save humanity, and your cause is much more important.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Also, that's a ridiculously stupid and self-righteous statement. Why do I have to want different things than you just because I believe in a different god, or multiple gods, or no god?

Wait, what was it you believe in again?

Because my beliefs nullify my arguments? I wasn't criticizing Christian beliefs, I was criticizing people's choice of labeling themselves -- if you didn't label yourself you wouldn't be offended right now. You, on the other hand, directly attacked my beliefs. Way to go. Also, I hope you realize using passive-aggression makes you look like a total douche.

I label myself because it was how I was raised, and Catholicism is close to my heart. THAT is why I take offense, you are bashing the values that my family has taught me.

This is one of my points. You were raised to believe these things –- you didn't decide for yourself. And again, I wasn't bashing your beliefs, I was bashing your ideology.

No, I don't agree with everything the Church teaches, but the Church teaches about God, and so I stand behind it. I'm not the most religious person out there, but I won't sit and let you talk bad about the things I hold dear.

If you don't totally agree then you are not totally Christian. Also, if you won't "let [me] talk bad about the things [you] hold dear" then all you are really doing is blindly ignoring any opposition. Maybe you're not right.

My other label, Christian, is much more important than the other, though I'm sure you don't like that one either.

Yeah, I don't like labels.

The foundation of everything I believe to be truth is within that label, so it's a big deal for me.

This contradicts what you said about not agreeing with everything.

I'm sorry if you can't see it the same way, but don't go acting like you're high and mighty because you're playing the waiting game.

What makes you higher and mightier that you can say this?

Also, skippy has it down.

Rain, too.

You guys rock.

Edited 28 May 2009 by Chameleon (see edit history)

[Teto 2609]

This contradicts what you said about not agreeing with everything.

I think he meant that everything he believes in is within the religion, but there's some stuff in there that doesn't sit right with him.

I believe in God, evolution and reincarnation.

I guess there's probably a religion/cult out there to label myself as, but I doubt I'd ever find it.

Edited 28 May 2009 by Rain (see edit history)

[Chameleon 0]

I think he meant that everything he believes in is within the religion, but there's some stuff in there that doesn't sit right with him.

I don't see how that changes anything. Maybe I'm not understanding?

I believe in God, evolution and reincarnation.

I guess there's probably a religion/cult out there to label myself as, but I doubt I'd ever find it.

And why would you need to? This is exactly my point.

I encourage everyone who reads this thread to check out 5thWatcher on YouTube. He's pretty much one of the only theists I "know" who have balanced, logical, and agreeable ideas.

[Teto 2609]

Indeed. I wouldn't need to. It would just be interesting if there was a religion. Mentioning it was bad.

Anyway,

Red - Christianity

Blue (outside) - My beliefs, Beliefs he does not hold/respect

Blue (inside) - Christian Beliefs he does not hold/respect

Yellow (inside) - His beliefs

Blue Smiley Face - Accidentally saved it like that

I am so bored right now. :|

[Chase 390]

I believe I stated that I don't agree with everything the Catholic Church teaches, so yes that would make me not entirely Catholic.

I do, however, believe what the Christ teaches to be 100% truth, so yes I will say that I'm entirely a Christian.

No contradiction there, since there is more to Christianity than just the Catholic church.

My ideology? Hmm. So by bashing my ideals, my "standard of perfection", you essentially bash my God, since He is the standard I look up to. That really makes you look like a douche.

I, however, have bashed nothing, since you don't believe in a god. The only one I seemed to have "bashed" is your imaginary man of perfection. Who do you look up to as ideal? You're standard of perfection is flawed because any human being you look up to is flawed. I'm sorry, but I don't believe that everyone is right, modernism is sick and twisted thinking because it rules out any chance of actual 100% truth.

I'm not high and mighty, and you missed the point. You say you're open minded, yet you are entirely against Christianity. You seem to place yourself above me, and you consistently talk down to me. There is no discussion with you, you have it in your head that you don't like me because of my beliefs, so whatever I say you will gladly give some condescending and arrogant answer to. I can't say that I respect your beliefs any more than you respect mine, but I'd like to respect you as a human being. You push your beliefs on me more than I do on you. I asked you simply to not bash Catholicism, and you create a topic pushing your beliefs on every Catholic here on the site, calling them "stupid fundamentalists" and saying they aren't really Catholic. Believe whatever you want, but you carry yourself like you're on top of the world. Come down from your throne and stop acting like you've figured it all out and everyone else is wrong. You are the most closed-minded open-minded individual I've ever met, and yes I realize that is a contradiction, thank you very much.

[Teto 2609]

I believe I stated that I don't agree with everything the Catholic Church teaches, so yes that would make me not entirely Catholic.

I do, however, believe what the Christ teaches to be 100% truth, so yes I will say that I'm entirely a Christian.

So you believe all from the New Testament, but the old testament is where it don't sit right with you. Like Adam and Eve, etc.

?

[Chase 390]

So you believe all from the New Testament, but the old testament is where it don't sit right with you. Like Adam and Eve, etc.

?

I believe we can learn from the Old Testament, but the name says it all. It's outdated and doesn't portray God as he completely is. To fully understand God, you have to take into account the Trinity, the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. God is a loving, forgiving God that will go to the ends of the earth to make you perfect like him. He hates injustice and fights for the cause of the orphans and the widows. He will give everyone according to his actions, and truly loves you. He's my role model. I believe Link is the closest that human beings can be to portraying him

[Teto 2609]

But he doesn't fight with kung fu or ninja skills, so he's lost my vote.

But seriously, he 'fights' for them?

[Chase 390]

Not fights in the literal term, haha. Fights as in defends them. If they suffer injustice, he pays it back to the person who commited the offense, and he gives the person who got hurt rewards for being faithful.

[Teto 2609]

Orphans die of disease everyday and the abusers walk free.

God is slacking.