A Thanksgiving Day Rant...

[Chameleon 0]

I didn't say you weren't different, or that you didn't deserve the right to be together with whoever you wanted. Sorry, but you, like most of the other No on 8 supporters, don't understand. You say "why can't you be with someone you love?" Did we say you couldn't? Please, point out where we said that. Eliminates same sex MARRIAGE, is what the ballot said. There's something you don't know, obviously. You see, gay and lesbian partners had and even after Prop 8 have a little thing we call a civil union. What is that? Does "Gay and lesbian partners shall have the same rights and benefits as married couples" sound familiar? No, to you it doesn't, because you're not after calling your partnership a "marriage". You might say you are, but you're not, because civil unions and marriage may be different words, but the reap the same exact BENEFITS. What gays and lesbians wanted in No on 8, was to force acceptance upon everyone else. What does that take away? The morals of society, freedom of speech, damages religious freedom, you've heard that a lot. If Prop 8 took away any rights, besides your partnership being called marriage (even with civil unions), please alert my twelve year old self.

Now, since you brought up my God, I cannot stand down. You contradict yourself. The photo of people praying to bring upon suffering of so many people? Well, we're not praying to my sofa, we're praying to GOD. Are you saying we have his support? Prop 8 passed. We were praying it would. You're some type of Christian, you follow God, so you understand. So I don't know why you even mentioned that. Are you saying that God is against you? Please explain what you mean. Would God support a peaceful group, or a group that has riots, steals signs, lies, makes commercials about Mormon missionaries stealing lesbians rings (that, my friend, is blasphemy), and is still fighting even though they clearly lost? Hmm....let us think.

Prop 8 kept marriage sacred, while still letting gays and lesbians have civil unions. Heteros: Marriage, Gays: Civil Unions. Rights: Equal.

This, from a twelve year old. You can keep to yourselves, but when you try to change a sacred union and force your acceptance upon an entire state, you've crossed the line, and hope God will forgive you.

How the hell can you say they don't want it to be called marriage? THAT IS WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT; IT'S RUDIMENTARY. If you can't even understand the basic principals of this conflict then all of your arguments should be considered null.

Also, you've got everything bass ackwards.

You took away their right to marry each other, no? That means before you did so, gay marriage was accepted by the law. You are taking it away

[Koltem 0]

Oh wow. Civil union my dear friend, did you see it? All gays want is for it to be called marriage? Even though they have their special little civil union, they simply want the name changed? That's all they want? No, they don't. How are we forcing acceptance when Prop 8 changed, let's see, nothing? Homosexuals aren't dealing with limitations. PROP 8 CHANGED NOTHING! AM I SPEAKING PORTUGESE?

Prop 8 changed nothing. Gays are together, in the oft repeated civil union that you obviously missed.

Gays aren't facing any limitations. THEY HAVE THEIR FANCY NAME FOR MARRIAGE.

If all that the gays wanted were to legally do the whole priest blessing in a church thing, I'm SOOO sorry, but that is childish and stupid. That's why we can generally assume that gays didn't just want that.

Gays are still together. You're lucky it didn't say, "Eliminates right for gay couples to be within 50 ft of each other." We're nice, and we let them keep their little union.

I feel like a robot. Some people just don't get it.

[Chameleon 0]

Oh wow. Civil union my dear friend, did you see it? All gays want is for it to be called marriage? Even though they have their special little civil union, they simply want the name changed? That's all they want? No, they don't. How are we forcing acceptance when Prop 8 changed, let's see, nothing? Homosexuals aren't dealing with limitations. PROP 8 CHANGED NOTHING! AM I SPEAKING PORTUGESE?

Prop 8 changed nothing. Gays are together, in the oft repeated civil union that you obviously missed.

Gays aren't facing any limitations. THEY HAVE THEIR FANCY NAME FOR MARRIAGE.

If all that the gays wanted were to legally do the whole priest blessing in a church thing, I'm SOOO sorry, but that is childish and stupid. That's why we can generally assume that gays didn't just want that.

Gays are still together. You're lucky it didn't say, "Eliminates right for gay couples to be within 50 ft of each other." We're nice, and we let them keep their little union.

I feel like a robot. Some people just don't get it.

How stupid can you get? Seriously? This is ridiculous. How can you argue with someone who doesn't even speak coherently? This sentence makes no sense:

How are we forcing acceptance when Prop 8 changed, let's see, nothing?

I don't care if you don't support homosexuality. I don't care if you don't want them to call it marriage. I'd have much less of a problem if you could see exactly what you are doing and saying and you just didn't like gay people. Instead, you have all this stupid, puppyed up logic that doesn't make any sense to "support" your position.

First of all, I know about Civil Unions. However, they are not the same as a marriage. If they were you wouldn't be trying so hard to ban marriage. You can't deny that.

A Civil Union gives gay couples all the same rights as a marriage, correct? It's just not legally recognized as a marriage. So if it's "the same as a marriage" then why are people upset about it if they don't want it to be called marriage? Point proved. You can't even argue against this with logic and reason.

They could marry before, right? Or rather

[Koltem 0]

Stating that someone fails hard is not how to win an argument. Man, if individuals just did what they were created for, we wouldn't have this problem.

Please, explain to my ignorant self what gays and lesbians want. Don't go off on another rant. This only requires a sentence. Let's be civil men here.

Take it to the most basic form.

[Chameleon 0]

Stating that someone fails hard is not how to win an argument. Man, if individuals just did what they were created for, we wouldn't have this problem.

Please, explain to my ignorant self what gays and lesbians want. Don't go off on another rant. This only requires a sentence. Let's be civil men here.

Take it to the most basic form.

I already proved my case before I stated you failed hard.

What individuals were created for is a biased point of view. Religion says it is to worship God. Atheism says it is to do cary out the functions your body has evolved to perform. Now, humans have free will. We think. This could be something that we evolved into or it could be

[Gingerlink 2]

marriage is a principle and a connotation thing.

In this case, it is very important to have that.

[Shadowknight 54]

Is it just me, or does the discussion that is currently happening belong in the "Serious Topics" section? This topic isn't a topic about arguing about same-sex marriage, it's about vivi's struggle to tell her mother about her sexual orientation. This topic was created for her sake, so I think this discussion should happen in the "same-sex marriage" topic in the "serious discussions" sub-forum. I won't voice my opinions here.

This topic isn't about the moral correctness of same-sex relationships. It's about vivi, so I don't think anything negative should be said about her.

Anyway, good luck with your life, vivi. Kudos on bravery.

[Chameleon 0]

This topic isn't about the moral correctness of same-sex relationships. It's about vivi, so I don't think anything negative should be said about her.

He attacked her. I was defending. You're right – it shouldn't be here; but the fact that he brought it here is part of what made me so angry.

I apologize. Also, if anyone wants to carry on the argument they can copy + paste a quote in Serious Discussion; so I'll just leave it at that.

Edited 18 Dec 2008 by Chameleon (see edit history)

[Koltem 0]

He attacked her. I was defending. You're right

[Gingerlink 2]

I don't see anywhere she INSULTED your beliefs at all.

Dismissed them, yes, but that's completely different...

[Vivica Todd 0]

Well, I'm somewhat defensive of the group I've been a part of for about... 2 years or something now. People who outright say to me 'become straight, it's the only way' are going to get a rather bitey response. :/ It's not just me; it's half the friends I know. It's my best friend, who can't quite describe what she is. It's my straight sister (in spirit; unfortunately, we're not blood-related. =w=; ), who would be a LOT worse than I am in a pissy response if she heard someone telling me negative things about my sexual orientation.

It's my girlfriend, who's afraid to bring the subject up with her mother again due to a terrifying time we both went through because of the fact that we're both girls.

I'm not going to tell them "okay, guys; I'm a straight now 'cos gay is wrong. I don't want to love you anymore, I can't make these beautiful stories together anymore". My goodness, I'd be miserable if I ever went back. I love her. I love writing these stories that hold homosexuality (which supports it, 100%). I love my sister, and my best friend.

I came out to my mom, and it's all pretty f***ing good. <3 Story ends. You can lock this topic, if you like; I don't want to keep fighting.

[Chameleon 0]

She insulted my beliefs first, my dear friend. Am I not allowed to defend what I believe in? We're not communists.

I don't see anywhere she INSULTED your beliefs at all.

Dismissed them, yes, but that's completely different...

Yes.

Also, she did it first? No, she didn't. This was the first post you made in this thread:

There is a simple solution to all of this. Become a straight. If you could only hear God crying. It is a sad moment when one of his children kisses the enemy (no pun intended).

You came in here to be an antagonist.

[Gingerlink 2]

locked to prevent further arguments