Gender Stereotypes

[Sahaqiel 1232]

So, as many of you know, I definitely do not follow gender stereotypes, and often laugh in their faces.

Apparently, my deceased grandfather would tie his also long hair into girlish styles and laugh when people mistook him for a girl.

I find this hilarious, since he died before I even got to meet him.

But then, I don't believe behavior is genetic, and that's a topic for another day.

Anyways, we're often separated into groups on how we look and act. There's styles like "70's", that go by time period, or "fashionable", by the current standard on how to look good.

Then there's classification by behavior and lifestyle. "Proper", "Punk", "Emo", "Country", etc.

But then there's gender stereotyping. Often times I am told to cut my hair because I "look like a girl".

They don't get on short-haired girls' cases for some reason.

Anyway, I believe that, with a more unisex society, we'd be free to do a lot more stuff.

Men who wear skirts are automatically "gay", but why can't he be a "man who is wearing a skirt"?

Women basically have the freedom to dress however they want without ridicule like that, and it's kind of unfair, in my opinion.

Which is why I've decided to get the

Utilikilt, which is a traditional "men's" garb, but whatever, it's dress code and no one can stop me from wearing it at school, where they apparently got mad at the football team for wearing skirts, even though nothing in the dress code isolates gender.

So what do you guys think? I know you've all expressed the desire to something "typical" of the other gender.

But do you think gender indifference is good or bad?

Sahaqiel

[Shadowknight 54]

Now, this is an interesting topic that I'm glad to see arise. Here's what I think.

Stereotypes, as unfortunate as this is, have a tendency to be true. Now, the thing about stereotypes is that they say all of a certain group fall under a certain category or share a certain trait, which is the problem. There are always exceptions.

Now, socially acceptable behaviour, however, is totally different. There are seperate rules, most of which don't even make sense. This is the area where men are restricted, and I have a slight idea as to why this could possibly be so. Put simply, the feminist movement earned women the right to do whatever they want culturally. Second wave feminism was all about breaking down the barriers of gender restrictions for women, be it gender roles (stereotypes) or sexuality. It resulted in women gaining increased freedom when it comes to what is socially "acceptable" and what is not.

There has not been any such movement for men. There has not been any breaking-down of cultural barriers.

That is my reasoning as to why a woman who wears a tie is more accepted than a man who puts his hair up.

[Chase 390]

Shadowknight, you hit it on the mark. Now let me take it a step further.

I see the same thing that you described happening in the families of today. Women have broken the barrier of gender roles. It is now inappropriate for a man to be head of the household, because that is limiting the woman's "freedom." Now, let me ask you this. Is this really limiting the woman's freedom, or is she limiting the man's freedom by not allowing him to be head of the household? I'm interested to see if in the future we get a lot more "masculinists" breaking away from the mold and speaking out against the women.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

I'm talking about gender stereotypes. I've already expressed disdain at gender roles.

And I would think it's a silly argument because they should be equals, and it shouldn't have to be a one-or-the-other choice.

Sahaqiel

[Chase 390]

You say we are equals, but again do you have any evidence of this?

Prove to me that we are equal beings.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

Prove to me we are not.

You silly sexist.

The only thing you've told me is that we have different standards for things like [PLACE A BUNCH OF PHYSICAL ACTIVITIES HERE], but mentally, the girls I hang out with are 300x more dedicated to getting a good grade than I am, have more interesting personalities than the guys I hang out with, and are more likely to succeed in everything anywhere.

And they're not sexist.

Sahaqiel

[Max 10]

You will live forever, Saha. But seriously, your grandfather sounds awesome.

[Chase 390]

Know that by saying that men and women aren't equal, I'm not saying that men should enslave women, or vice versa. I merely mean that we are different, very, very different, and should have different roles.

Evidence #1

Biologically, men and women are different. Brain structure and function, genetics, hormones...These all prove that men and women are not equal, biologically speaking. Menstruation, birth...these things are facts.

Evidence #2

Men have contributed more to society and humanity in general. Who was it that invented electricity? Cars? Trains? Planes? Who wrote the Constitution? Who have fought in countless wars for family and country? Men. Men have contributed more to society, though this may be due to the fact that women haven't always had the freedom to do so. Though, are women strong enough? This brings me to my next point...

Evidence #3

Men, as a whole, are stronger than women. Pit an average man against an average woman in a fist fight, and the man will most likely win. Women need lower standards than men, especially in the military. How many women would actually be able to serve if they had to use the same standards as men? I'm sorry, but if I'm fighting a war, I'd take a man who barely missed the male standard over a woman who passed her test's standards.

Evidence #4

Women do not make as much in the workforce as men. Equality...huh. This could change in the future (I actually hope it does, women don't need to suffer injustice) but for the moment, it shows that equality isn't what's going on.

Evidence #5

For those of us Christians out there, (as well as Islamics, Hindus, and pretty much any religion) women and men aren't equal. They have defined gender roles, and should stick to those roles.

Evidence #6

"Nor can ambitious women escape the problem that serious success can never, of its nature, be a part-time option: she must choose between home and work, just as successful men must do. The idea that a heart surgeon or a cabinet minister or a Lehman Sister could be home regularly for bath and story time and weekend bonding is nonsense. The world isn’t like that: while she is reading Winnie-the-Pooh, her competitors will be working or networking, and if not here, then in Shanghai or Mumbai." -Minette Marin. Women can't be full time workers and full time mothers. It just isn't humanly possible.

I could keep going, but I think that's sufficient until you find something in nature, society, religion, or the military to counter it. Also, once again, I don't believe women should suffer injustice. If a woman meets the criteria, then she should be given the job, with equal pay to that of a man. In that respect, I think equality is a good thing. However, gender roles are present for a reason. In families, the women are needed to care for the children, and feminists today are damning their families because of their own pride.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

By equality, I mean the quality of a person. I know we're different.

#1 - Yeah?

#2 - That's owing to #3, #6, and male aggression due to gender superiority complexes like yours, something I recall to be a bad thing?

#3 - Which is not to say there are women who can surpass men physically, so the point is null, since there is balance in average potential. The strongest man can surpass the strongest woman, but when are those two ever really going to be battling each other to the death in the same room?

#4 - Due to society and #2's rebuttals.

#5 - Religion is something that can't be proven, therefore cannot be used as proof, as it's a system of beliefs on faith rather than empirical data.

#6 - Women can be full time workers and men can be full time fathers. This occurs. It is "natural".

Also

and feminists today are damning their families because of their own pride.

Prior to this moment, I've never been so pissed at any comments you've ever made.

In other words, this is the first time you've started to piss me off.

Your family is not the only goddamned family in this whole nation. While you think your so-called traditional family is the only right and just thing on the whole planet, there are people, which, by DNA and free will are meant to be different from you, who can pull it off without problems. You speak of their pride, but it seems you're too proud of your own skin to think twice about what that means for other people.

But you fail to recognize this with your God-goggles and testosterone.

Please stop that.

Sahaqiel

[Chase 390]

God-goggles and testosterone? I'm talking about a family system that has worked, Sahaqiel. Maybe you should look at a different viewpoint than that of "I'll disprove every point Lionheart made with no evidence to back myself up, only my opinion."

Gender superiority complex? Sahaqiel, damn it. You have nothing to base that on. Women, specifically feminists, have fought for rights in this country and have been given them every time. I'm talking about something much different than a right, a role that was placed upon the shoulders of men and women. Get past the idea that we're equal, because we're not. You said "Yeah?" in response to my first point, but it just shows that we're designed to have different roles.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

I'm talking about a family system that has worked, Sahaqiel.

Walking worked.

Then bicycles worked.

Now, cars work.

Planes, even.

Society evolves, Lionheart.

Maybe you should look at a different viewpoint than that of "I'll disprove every point Lionheart made with no evidence to back myself up, only my opinion."

Your entire argument was based on things that can be disproven with common knowledge, which I stated. :/

Women didn't contribute because they couldn't contribute due to man's oppressive nature. Women were targeted during the Salem Witch Trials because they were "weaker vessels, in the eyes of God". Women weren't allowed to read books, or get educated. Women had to stay home because men had attitudes like yours in regards to how a family works.

Women aren't inherently stronger, but our potential for physical progression doesn't have a practical difference.

Who would ever need to lift two trucks in the workplace.

Your religion is based on male deities, touting female inferiority in pretty much everything, apparently, something that has plagued women's rights for quite a bit.

Also remember that women's equality in rights didn't happen too long ago. There are people alive today that couldn't vote at one point.

I replied, "Yeah?" to the first part because I know that it's true. I stated so before I even started that post.

On feminists:

Your family is not the only goddamned family in this whole nation. While you think your so-called traditional family is the only right and just thing on the whole planet, there are people, which, by DNA and free will are meant to be different from you, who can pull it off without problems. You speak of their pride, but it seems you're too proud of your own skin to think twice about what that means for other people.

In short

You are not the only family

Other families can work, too

Do not say it like yours is the only way a family will work.

I'm talking about a family system that has worked, Sahaqiel.

It has worked.

It is not the only one that will ever work ever.

And you haven't even begun to recognize this.

I never said anything of rights, and was focused on roles the whole time.

My whole stance is that there shouldn't be definitive roles.

We are people with choices, and enough ingenuity to figure out our problems.

Sahaqiel

[Chase 390]

Should I start putting Lionheart at the end of my posts? What do you think?

Lionheart

Anyway dude, you missed the point of what I was trying to say. Men and women aren't equal. Take it wherever you like from there, but men and women ARE NOT EQUAL. That is all.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

I don't know if you're being serious or just trolling me or what. :/

And the only reason I have the habit of putting my name at the end of my posts is because people misspell it so often.

Anyway, there are a couple scenarios running through my mind.

case 1: You are trying to say "Men and women are equal as human beings but are different in how they work"

case 2: You are trying to say "Men are better than women", which I don't think you're trying to say but it looks like it

case 3: You have an opinion on men/women, but are just trying to make me angry.

In order of likeliness,

1, 3, 2.

Sahaqiel

[Chase 390]

Case 1, with a bit of case 3. But just because I love you.

And, apparently, people have trouble typing out Lionheart. Lion, LH, Lionhart...I rarely get called Lionheart :/

[Sahaqiel 1232]

I knew it.

And I love you too.

Also, this thread is more about your general behavior, not gender equality.

Like if I just decided to wear lip gloss one day, people'd be like, "Dude, is that lip gloss? You're a guy, you shouldn't have lip gloss".

Which is similar to saying, "Dude, shouldn't you be eating that rice with chopsticks since you're Asian? You shouldn't be using a fork."

Though I admit, I wield chopsticks pretty well.

Do you feel special when I call you Lionheart?

Sahaqiel