Veggie Tales

[Magnus 0]

I used to watch Veggie Tales when i was younger.....

Remembering, i didn't think they were all bad..... But there was one about a living toy with a buzz saw built into it.....

There was the Jonah veggie tales.... They twisted that story, they ones that sailed him to Tarshish were pirates, and they had a electrical boat motor.

[ZuZu 10]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but atheism isn't a belief, right? It's an unbelief, in you will. That being said, it isn't right to push out atheistic videos to children. Atheism doesn't have a set belief, anyone could claim to be an atheist and believe whatever they want. There is no core fundamentalism to being an atheist other than not believing the existence of gods. The reason Veggie Tales dvds are made is not only to be propaganda, though I agree that they are, they are also used to teach values to a child. Making an atheistic video in response to Veggie Tales is only out of malice, since the dvds aren't hurting anyone.

I don't mind a pro-muslim dvd if it was true and taught values. Atheism has no values, because atheism itself doesn't really exist. It isn't a belief, you simply disbelief in gods.

Many athiests, including myself consider it a belief in not-believing, which i guess is just a different way of saying what you've just said, but in my eyes its still held as a religion as much any other religion - simply with some different rules / views - ie instead of worship this god its dont worship any god ... yes this may be a bit confusing. but you make it sound like athiests have no morals at all, just because we don't have a god doesn't mean we're not nice people can cannot teach good values to children etc.

You can still create great TV shows that teach children things without any sort of propaganda, so why not do that instead? Im sure people from all religions (athiesm included) would agree that teaching positive values to children is a good thing to do, and if you took out a all bias from certain religion(s), parents of all cultures and religions could show their children the one tv show. As I said before, any type of propaganda is bad.

[Aethix 129]

Multiculturalism is a buzz word. While it is a good thing in theory, it has been hijacked as a means of smearing people with opposing viewpoints. (i.e. a lot of Obama's critics were labeled as racist, and don't even get me started on Sotomayor)

So, yes, shows promoting multiculturalism are just as much propaganda as Veggietales.

Edited 19 Jun 2009 by Aethix (see edit history)

[Sahaqiel 1232]

So in other words, Zuzu, you don't consider it not believing in a deity, but believing there aren't any deities, therefore, it is a believe system.

Semantics and whatnot.

Sahaqiel

[Alex Arbiter 3]

oh god all the nightmares are coming back now

[Chase 390]

Many athiests, including myself consider it a belief in not-believing, which i guess is just a different way of saying what you've just said, but in my eyes its still held as a religion as much any other religion - simply with some different rules / views - ie instead of worship this god its dont worship any god ... yes this may be a bit confusing. but you make it sound like athiests have no morals at all, just because we don't have a god doesn't mean we're not nice people can cannot teach good values to children etc.

You can still create great TV shows that teach children things without any sort of propaganda, so why not do that instead? Im sure people from all religions (athiesm included) would agree that teaching positive values to children is a good thing to do, and if you took out a all bias from certain religion(s), parents of all cultures and religions could show their children the one tv show. As I said before, any type of propaganda is bad.

I'm not saying that you personally don't have morals, It's pretty obvious you do I'm saying that the umbrella of atheism is limitless. You may have morals, but what if someone with no morals who calls himself an atheist wants to make one of those dvds?

I'm not so sure all propaganda is bad. Seen through the eyes of a Christian, Veggie Tales is a great way to educate children about Christianity and values. I guess if you consider it brainwashing then yes it is bad, but Veggie Tales doesn't attack anyone. It's very kid friendly, if I remember correctly.

The problem with showing one universal TV show is that no one would agree, because it's very hard to keep religion out of things. You consider atheism your religion, correct? How do you explain where values come from? Or how the world was created?

If it sounds like I'm attacking you, I apologize. I'm just very interested in what you have to say

[Skippy 82]

So my question here would be, what's so wrong with a show that promotes Christianity?

I don't see it on any major networks anymore, and when I put my cable guide on it, it comes up as a Christian show. People who watch it a lot know what they are getting themselves into, and quite frankly, the people who watch that show are children of parents who are Christian. And the show does have a good moral structure either way, my thoughts were always to teach children when they are young what he parents beliefs are, and then let them make their own choice when they are old enough to understand that choice. I myself am a Christian, but If I had a son or daughter who decided to be an atheist, Jew, Muslim, Wicca, whatever, I would accept that, as long as they were old enough to fully understand that decision.

As for it being propaganda, yes, it is, so is pretty much everything we see on TV today, and quite frankly, the world isn't any worse for Veggie Tales, it isn't saying to hate people, it isn't causing children to take up arms in a holy war, it really is just a fun way to teach love and forgiveness (yes, i've sen Veggie Tales, my nieces used to love them back when they lived with me and it was new), and other things, just like any show, they just happen to throw God into the mix.

If you don't like it, or you don't want your kids or whoever watching it, there's this awesome thing called a remote, pick it up and change the channel, it isn't the only kid friendly thing on, I promise.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

Zeldafancs, what? ;/

"but what if someone with no morals who calls himself an atheist wants to make one of those dvds?"

The same thing could easily go for Christians.

And values, religion or not, come from the underlying feeling of empathy. You don't want to shoot a man, because, well, you wouldn't want to get shot.

And more often than not, the atheist community believes in scientific theories like the Big Bang/Pinch/Bounce, along with like 98% of the scientific community, which are coincidentally atheist.

Sahaqiel

[Chase 390]

Zeldafancs, what? ;/

"but what if someone with no morals who calls himself an atheist wants to make one of those dvds?"

The same thing could easily go for Christians.

Wrong, because Christians could call a man claiming to be Christian out if he produced something that wasn't Christian. The atheist community can't do that, because there isn't any unity. While, like Zuzu was saying, an atheist can have morals, that doesn't mean that ALL atheists have morals, and the man isn't breaking any "atheist" code or anything by producing the dvd.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

It doesn't matter, because not only Christians call Christians out for not being Christian. :| Same thing goes for atheists. There isn't much more to atheists other than they don't believe in gods, but if they didn't have morals, then obviously, SOMEONE is going to call them out for it. What, you think only Christians can call out Christians and only atheists can call out atheists?

Sahaqiel

[Chase 390]

I'm sorry, this is going to sound like I'm preaching, but I honestly want to know an atheistic viewpoint. Every atheist I've talked to has no reason to believe in atheism other than "because there isn't a god" well, okay, but shouldn't there be a reason to toss out that option? I always receive smart ass combacks too, I swear atheists will defend their disbelief to the death. I'd like someone who isn't afraid to be in the middle, who doesn't believe in gods, but is open to the possibility of one. Please, any atheist who'd like to help do so. And please, no smart ass remarks, I'm trying to see from another's point of view.

Empathy. Where does empathy come from and why do we have it? Was it randomly assigned to us by the Big Bang, or was it given to us by a being who has empathy, or was it given to us by a being who created empathy? Was it by evolution? but then, who created the species that had it in the first place?

Sahaqiel,

Atheists aren't a gang, group, cult, congregation, or mass. They are individuals who happen to find a thing in common. My point is that dvds can't be labeled "Atheist" because there is really no set atheism law. With a Christian dvd, you know what you're getting into before you even watch it. With an atheistic dvd, who knows? Would it be filled with hate for religions? Would it teach that everyone is right? Would it teach values? There's no telling, I wouldn't feel safe letting my kids watch something that could amount to anything. With Veggie Tales, you know what to expect. Christian stories and values. Whether you agree that the stories are right is another matter, the fact remains that you know what to expect. If you don't want to watch it, flip the channel. With an atheist-based dvd set, I'd literally have to watch them all to make sure my kids could see them.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

It really does seem like a bias.

My atheist friends lean towards science over God, not just because "there isn't a God", but because everything we are now can be explained by science.

but then, who created the species that had it in the first place?

You're assuming someone created it... -_-

Empathy comes from our thoughts, which come from various electrical impulses that are stimulated and affected through hormones, among other things. Where did we get this? Well see, think of it like this.

You have colored sand in a neat pattern in a bottle, but you shake it up and the sand blends. What happens? It becomes brown to your eyes. It isn't because it's changed chemical composition, but because our eyes perceive it so because of the combination of colors. The colors are still in there, though. Now, pour this now-brown sand in a pan that vibrates slightly. This is the universe. That brown sand. But see, the universe is forever, literally. Now this pan vibrates forever and a day. Eventually, whether you like it or not, those sand particles will eventually form a colorful pattern once more after being displaced. This is a one in an extremely ridiculously long number chance, but was it because of God? No. It was because a bunch of sand was left moving for forever. Eventually, simple cells developed a genetic system. It's not perfect-- mutations always exist. Why? Well, the sand is still moving. Atom-precision isn't possible to simple and imperfect things like cells. Maybe it's just not possible through any sentient method. The DNA changes, and a new universe is born-- a one with life. This life is now a separate brown sand pile, working its way into place to become colorful. DNA is constantly shifted around, becoming obsolete and perishing, becoming successful and prospering, and eventually dying as all things do. Millions of years later, here we are. With all that time for the sand to vibrate in that pan, is it really a wonder why people have the abilities they do?

Actually, yes. In my opinion, anything that can question why it is there is one of the most wonderful things there are, up there with love. Which is really odd, when you think about it. One pile of atoms, or colorful sand, or dust for you Christians, caring about the state of another pile of atoms, sand, or dust.

These are the kinds of things that fit into atheist society. Support of science over religion is one large belief of many atheists. Someone could make an atheist DVD pretty easily.

Of course, much of it is just pointing out inconsistency with religion.

Then some of it deals with philosophy. Why be good because God wants you to, or because you might be punished by God? Why not be good because you want to? There's no better reason.

I'm not saying Veggietales doesn't teach morals, I'm just saying it's religious propaganda.

Clarifying, I'm not an atheist, yeah? I believe there's some higher power that just chills out and does nothing. Because that's exactly what it looks like.

Sahaqiel

Edited 20 Jun 2009 by Sahaqiel (see edit history)

[Chase 390]

But Saha, if you aren't an atheist than you didn't answer my question, ya?

Your answer when I ask "but who created the "infinite sand" is "a higher power that does nothing"

I want the viewpoint of an atheist.

And, from my perspective, science doesn't disprove a god in any way. Sure, Big bang, whatever. Something still has to start the bang. There is no spontaneous generation. Evolution? great! But something had to start the process. Something can't come from nothing, infinity follows suit. The only thing, the only explanation, is an intelligent being, a god, who doesn't play by our rules. Someone who makes the rules.

[Chase 390]

It really does seem like a bias.

My atheist friends lean towards science over God, not just because "there isn't a God", but because everything we are now can be explained by science.

You're assuming someone created it... -_-

It's true, everything we are now can be explained by science. For the most part, anyway. But what about the very beginning? And the very end? That's a fatal flaw in trusting in Science, a being that isn't remotely sentient. Science won't open its mouth and tell you, and there's no chance of it ever doing that.

I'm assuming someone created it because science doesn't tell me any differently :/

sorry for the double post.

Edited 20 Jun 2009 by zeldafancs (see edit history)

[Sahaqiel 1232]

There are things that will definitely take awhile to get a hold on. The origins of the universe are kind of baffling, but that doesn't mean there isn't an explanation. There are fundamental laws. The smallest thing that can exist. Why is it the smallest? No one is sure yet. People can put in the variables, solve for it, but there's still no known explanation as to why this is. Like for the speed of light or the rate of gravity. Maybe that unknown deity I feel just kicks its appendages up and watches the hilarity ensue caused this? Probably not, from a logical standpoint. Maybe math doesn't apply in that dimension? Who knows?

See, this is where religion gets off to assumption.

Science:

The universe was created, and we have done much research and have come to many conclusions about how it happened.

How was it created?

We'll figure it out with observations and research.

Religion:

The universe was created by God.

How was it created?

God did it.

You don't pay a scientist to say "God did it". You wouldn't have to pay a scientist to say "God did it". You wouldn't go to the extremes to find out how the universe was created. It's the lazy way out.

To me, and to many other people, any inconsistency in religious texts can be grounds for calling it, the religion as a whole, wrong. We know that Adam and Eve never happened. Why? Well, instead of assuming that this happened there in this fashion, scientific records were made, things were measured, and well, we're much older than the Bible says we are, plus there were dinosaurs and all this long before man was created. So if this thing, the Bible has been lying to people about, is wrong, then why would people give other parts of it credibility? This is where science debunks religion.

Don't tell me it's not meant to be taken literally. Think of Greek-Roman mythology. They were meant to be taken literally, just like Christianity. That's why both religions sacrificed stuff to their respective gods and why there are creationists. All the myths and whatnot are meant to explain things we see and experience in our lives. How convenient is it in Christian texts is it that men are God's perfect creation and women are their subordinates? We still have a plethora of useless organs. Body hair, sinuses, the appendix, the gall bladder, etc. If we were created in a perfect being's image, then that perfect being must have had messed up insides.

Life after death is also just assumption brought on by the will to live in people. A person who is scared of death will think of any way to get out of it when it approaches. Why not make up a place you go to after you die? Saves all the trouble.

In a way, this is an attack on religion, but it's some of the things that make of the atheist viewpoint.

I side more with atheism than other religions, because I empathize with what it must have felt like to have the unknown looming over my head. This is where I believe religions came from. Why is there a sky? Why are we here? Why can't I live forever? Why do I feel it's wrong to kill? Where did the Earth come from? What would happen if Pinocchio said, "My nose will now grow"?

Sahaqiel

Edited 20 Jun 2009 by Sahaqiel (see edit history)