Sex Change

[Roc 8]

Hermaphrodites can do whatever they want with their bodies, just like everyone else. They can decide what they want. If they don't want surgery, don't make 'em get it.

[Jikklop Byrne 0]

I'm yet to meet anyone who has changed genders, but I wouldn't treat them any different to anyone else. I don't think it's wrong. If it's what you want and if it makes you happy, then go for it.

[Skippy 82]

Here's one. What about a boy who, when being circumcised, had a botched job and had his genitals mutilated beyond repair. The doctor tells the parents that they have a choice, to either raise their son as a boy who will likely never have a fully functioning penis, or as a girl who will never be able to get pregnant. The parents decide to raise the child as a girl, giving her High-dose estrogen since she was a small child, also as a small child they give it a surgery to create a vagina. As a teenager, this girl finds out she is gnetically a boy, but has been raised a girl. What do we do in this situation, is it nature vs. nurture? do we let the child choose to be male or female?

[Sahaqiel 1232]

Open your mind a bit, Jirrue.

Changing your gender doesn't change who you are. It doesn't make humanity fucked up. It makes you a different gender in appearance. This hurts nobody. It is just like getting a tattoo. You are altering your appearance. This is what Crocodile was telling you. When you get a tattoo, you alter what your skin looks like. When you change your gender, you just alter what your body looks like. You don't magically gain the ability to get pregnant. Although, a method for male pregnancy has been found, but you don't even need a sex change for that.

Also, and Jirrue, please bear with me on this, because if I have to explain it again I might have to ban you.

When someone defends a group of people, or a practice, it does not mean they are part of that group of people, and it does not mean they practice whatever they're defending.

This pisses me off to extremes.

When I defend homosexuals to the death, it is not because I am homosexual. So many people, while I try to explain my points, just block out my words with, "No, you're gay, stop talking to me," in an ignorance shield that has yet to be rivaled. The reason I defend homosexuals is because I don't want my homosexual friends, who are good, normal people, to get hurt, just because people don't take the time to know who they are inside. It is because I have an innate obligation to my friends, like a person will defend their friends from racists.

Accusing people like this does not make your point any more valid, and in fact, just makes you look like an idiot.

Lionheart never ever implied he wanted a sex change, and as far as I can recall, no one in this thread has, either.

I don't like your way of explaining it as a disease, though, Arcane.

But listen, there is a proven part of your time in the mother's womb that can decide whether or not you're pumped on testosterone, or on estrogen. Estrogen is the female hormone. If you receive a blast of this, you have a higher chance of being feminine or homosexual.

(An apparently good way to tell which you received more of is to look at your fingers. Those whose index and ring finger are about the same length got more estrogen, while those with a longer ring finger received more testosterone)

Imagine you just switched bodies with a person with a much higher level of estrogen. You start to feel attracted to guys, even if you don't want to be, just like how men can be attracted to females, even if they don't want to be. It's a matter of hormones and your standards of beauty, which can be altered by your hormone state. Suddenly, you want to hang out with girls, and relate to them on a much more personal level. You just feel like one of the girls. (I say this with denial of gender stereotypes, so I don't mean you're going to start wearing makeup or start wanting to wear dresses) Anyway, so now you're pretty much a woman in a man's body. Literally. Saying you would want to stay in a man's body would just be a lie. So what do you do?

Look! It's a method that will give you the appearance of a woman's body! While not the real thing, it's pretty much the next best thing!

(Unless you go with the awesome way of doing it, which is taking estrogen therapy and hypnosis treatments until you grow breasts that can lactate. Admittedly, through curiosity, I want to try it, but I'm pretty sure I'm just not going to.)

So there, you just solved one of your life problems. You're much more comfortable. And if it's not natural enough for you, think of the above paragraph that lets you grow breasts with no surgery at all. I've seen pics. Also, things like tattoos weren't given to you by God, either. Or piercings. Or cars. Or the ability to cut your hair or shave. Or clothes.

Humanity itself has pretty much taken nature by the scruff of the neck and kicked it in the stomach, I'd say.

So please, just open your mind to these ideas.

Sahaqiel

Edited 5 Sep 2009 by Sahaqiel (see edit history)

[Chase 390]

I think that situation is so incredibly gray, there really isn't a right answer. (Socrates)

Edited 5 Sep 2009 by Lionheart (see edit history)

[Sahaqiel 1232]

Whose? (Oh.)

Edited 6 Sep 2009 by Sahaqiel (see edit history)

[SuperSaiyanJirrue 0]

I'd rather not get involved anymore about it. It is as it is I suppose.

Plus I don't feel like being threatened again.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

The threat isn't the point.

The point is that you're ignoring points.

Sahaqiel

[Sahaqiel 1232]

ZING

Loves me some Figurehead.

I'd become a woman for him.

[pheonix561 2080]

Im cool with sex change. Don't like your penis? CUT IT OFF! MAKE IT LONGER! hey, get a second one for your apartment in the city! what I'm more concerned with is people changing genders for better chances in sporting events, such as the olympics. Like in that giant track and field event that just happened, where the girl who won on the girl's team was actually a guy, but he said he "feels like hes a girl and believes he's a girl." How do we know he didnt just "trade teams" to the one with less competition(not to say that girls aren't as fast or something, I'm just saying in the event that girls are slower across the board for whatever reason)? Or maybe its a step in the right direction? maybe its time to start eliminating the men/women boundaries in sports? THOUGHTS?!

and on a side note, if he(she) was really just using a social loophole to win, she could have at least gone so far as to get the surgery done!

[Arcane 12]

I don't like your way of explaining it as a disease, though, Arcane.

Yeah, sorry. That was the only term I could think of to explain it. And of course, it doesn't help that I haven't done much research into the subject. :[

[Sahaqiel 1232]

It raises my respect for you, Pheonix, Internet, IRL, and otherwise, that you referred to her as a she throughout the whole paragraph.

Also, Arcanelord, yeah, if you'd researched it, then you'd probably come up with things like the old medical standard that was changed back in like the 60-70's area that said homosexuality and desire to become opposite gender was a mental disorder/disease.

Which is part of the reason why I frowned on your description so much. :/

Sahaqiel

HOLD ON.

EVERYONE, STOP WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

WOT'S OLL THIS, THEN?

As I screenshotted that, I began a giggling in loudness and giddiness directly proportional to how amazingly hilarious this is, increasing as it sank into my head.

Alright, SuperSaiyanJirrue.

I'll do the estrogen treatment and get female primary sex organs.

Just for you.

This will be the best costume contest I've ever been in.

Sahaqiel

Edited 6 Sep 2009 by Sahaqiel (see edit history)

[pheonix561 2080]

yeah, actually homosexuality was classified as a mental dissorder in china up until like 2001 or so. WHATS A JIRRUE?! WHY IS IT SO FUNNY?! WHAT DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH SEX CHANGES AND COSTUMES?!

well it took me a minute, but I figured out why the hell that was so funny.

[Arcane 12]

We really should stop ganging up on Jirrue.

But that is pretty funny.

[pheonix561 2080]

Isn't gender solely based on X and Y chromosomes though? Either way though, if you don't like your body, alter it. You don't bring your body with you to Heaven. Why not desecrate it or alter it to how you want to look? By that logic, people shouldn't get tattoos, piercings,etc. What if you were given an extra hand? you'd want to fix that, right?

HELL NO! A THIRD HAND?! THATS THREE SPATULAS! THREE MOTHER puppyING SPATULAS! THINK WHAT YOU COULD DO WITH THREE MOTHERpuppyING SPATULAS!

thats like a 50% increase on your burger output!