Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy

[Sahaqiel 1232]

So hey, I think this is the most stupid rule I've ever heard of. At some points in time I sit and wonder how completely moronic this is.

Homosexual people who want to can't be part of the military to defend a country that rejects them. How's that for gratitude, United States? People completely willing to die for the nation that still won't even give them the right of marriage.

The Don't-Ask-Don't-Tell policy is semi-meant to allow homosexuals to join the military. As long as you don't confirm that you're homosexual. If you do, then you're kicked out.

Anyways, I'm bringing this up 'cause I was watching Fox News lol and the topic was brought up. A really high ranked dude in the military apparently is saying this isn't the time to be dicking around and bullying homosexuals out of the military. Which makes him p. cool. Even John McCain brought up how pointless this policy is.

"Nobody asks if you're gay in a fox hole."

Also lol, whoever did Fox's captions today kinda' sucks. There was a poll of the Fox News viewers (lol once more) of whether or not to abolish the policy. 51% said no, 33% said yes, while the rest was undecided. The captions said "511%". I seriously couldn't gather a lot from those captions. They're normally pretty good. Today they were slow and a bunch of stuff was misspelled and at one point they backspaced only to pause for like five seconds and continue with a misspelled name.

Anyways, I digress.

They gave me a medal for killing a man, and a discharge for loving one

- (Former) Sergeant Leonard Matlovich

What are your thoughts, everyone?

[DocHobo 0]

>Fox News

anyway, the policy is completely out of place and outdated and should be done away with.

[Kimmy 0]

>Fox News

John McCain has loved gays ever since his daughter came out. Like, he was very against gay people before that.

[Grandmaster Phoenix 26]

I will not join the military if this rule is removed.

[Aethix 129]

The rule is a bit of a quandary to me. A lot of soldiers might be uncomfortable around openly gay soldiers, for various reasons. Whether or not that discomfort is justified is beside the point, if the soldiers become uncomfortable, then it becomes difficult to function as a unit. That's never a good thing.

On the flip side, discrimination is never pretty, especially for such a noble cause.

So yeah, you have practical concerns on one side and moral concerns on the other side. There's no perfect solution, and it's difficult to see which one is better. I'm personally a pragmatist on the issue, but I can easily understand some people's objections.

[DocHobo 0]

The rule is a bit of a quandary to me. A lot of soldiers might be uncomfortable around openly gay soldiers, for various reasons. Whether or not that discomfort is justified is beside the point, if the soldiers become uncomfortable, then it becomes difficult to function as a unit. That's never a good thing.

That's the type of logic people used to justify Jim Crow laws. I see the reasoning behind it, but it is also a fancy way of stopping progress.

@GMP: Why? Homophobia?

[Kimmy 0]

Shin, it's because he'd have to admit to being gay.

[Teto 2609]

@GMP: Why? Homophobia?

You must be new here.

[DocHobo 0]

You must be new here.

<--- 30 Dec 09

[Cascade 741]

Completely unnecessary policy, it has to go now and so does homophobia. And why do people even watch Fox News? It confuses me.

[Skippy 82]

I don't think the policy should be lifted. In fact, I don't think that sexual orientation should ever be brought up in a military type situation.

I don't think you should be openly sexual, in any fashion, while in a professional capacity of the military. When you are off duty, ad are not living in the barracks, do as you please. Which is really the only problem here, the problem arises when people openly express homosexuality in a situation in which soldiers are barracked (Basic, Singles housing, so on).

The idea behind living in a barracks is that all people are equal, bringing sexuality, of any sort, into a barracks disrupts the attitude and purpose of the barracks. The military doesn't care what you do apart from it, but it does not want you to bring it into the job. If you want to do guys on your leave weekends, and when you are out of the barracks, and not in your office/post, go right ahead.

It's just like any other professional job, show up, do your job, no one there needs to know your sexual preferences, just that you do the job. Same with the military, leave it out of the military, just like you SHOULD in your job.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

Why isn't the same thing applied to straight people then?

Why does it have to be so homosexual specific?

I don't care if you know what the military is like. That's just stupid.

How about instead of calling "Don't Ask Don't Tell", call it, "Don't be sexual on the job".

I think this would pretty much cover everything. Even pheonix561's tractor fetish.

If someone is exposed as a gay person, they shouldn't be fired. That's against the law, I believe. Employment has stopped being biased (legally) against certain groups for a pretty long time. So why is this any different?

Also, GMP, why not? Because you're still being purposely ignorant for so long?

Are you afraid of gay people flirting with you? Who does that? pheonix likes girls. Don't he hit on girls every chance he gets? No. Does that mean every guy doesn't hit on a girl every chance he gets? No. Homosexuals aren't any different, except they are attracted towards men. It's not like they're going to sneak into your bed at night. Stop being so pathetic.

Sahaqiel

[Skippy 82]

Why isn't the same thing applied to straight people then?

Why does it have to be so homosexual specific?

I don't care if you know what the military is like. That's just stupid.

How about instead of calling "Don't Ask Don't Tell", call it, "Don't be sexual on the job".

I think this would pretty much cover everything. Even pheonix561's tractor fetish.

If someone is exposed as a gay person, they shouldn't be fired. That's against the law, I believe. Employment has stopped being biased (legally) against certain groups for a pretty long time. So why is this any different?

Also, GMP, why not? Because you're still being purposely ignorant for so long?

Are you afraid of gay people flirting with you? Who does that? pheonix likes girls. Don't he hit on girls every chance he gets? No. Does that mean every guy doesn't hit on a girl every chance he gets? No. Homosexuals aren't any different, except they are attracted towards men. It's not like they're going to sneak into your bed at night. Stop being so pathetic.

Sahaqiel

It's supposed to be, but the fact is, it only gets punished if it's reported, and heterosexuality is generally not reported, because it doesn't make the soldiers uncomfortable. That's why it's don't ask don't tell, it means I won't ask you if you are gay or straight, you don't tell me if you are gay or straight. It does apply to both, in the same capacity, a homosexual could report sexual misconduct of a straight soldier, you just don't see it.

You say you don't care what the military is like, but it is the very nature of the military, being a part of the unit, and barrack living that makes the don't ask don't tell policy what it is. if you don't understand or care what the military is like, than you don't understand or care what the don't ask don't tell policy is.

[DocHobo 0]

It's supposed to be, but the fact is, it only gets punished if it's reported, and heterosexuality is generally not reported, because it doesn't make the soldiers uncomfortable. That's why it's don't ask don't tell, it means I won't ask you if you are gay or straight, you don't tell me if you are gay or straight. It does apply to both, in the same capacity, a homosexual could report sexual misconduct of a straight soldier, you just don't see it.

I don't know where you get this bullshit about it also applying to straight people. DADT does not apply to straight people and therefore is clearly discriminating against gays. There is a difference between being openly gay and sexual misconduct.You won't get discharged for being 'openly straight.' In other words, you only have to admit to being gay to be discharged, not commit sexual misconduct.

[Teto 2609]

<--- 30 Dec 09

Kidding. Also, I realised you were here for two days before Pádaig left.