Affirmative Action

[Grandmaster Phoenix 26]

So, I'm busy applying for scholarships, and I see this bullshit:

"Special consideration will be given to those who are a first-generation college student, female, minority, military veteran or a dependent of military personnel."

Affirmative action is still legalized racism/sexism.

Discuss.

[pheonix561 2080]

The idea behind it is that there are people out there who really are still racist, and will purposely choose to hire someone with a worse resume than someone of colour or a woman or what have you. For parts of the world where the managers and things are all racist, sure, this is helpful. But it's also very hindering for the people who aren't racist and are just trying to run a business. Sometimes an owner actually has to hire a minority with a lesser resume because they run the risk of getting sued for discrimination if they don't.

[pheonix561 2080]

British and Norwegian. Saxon and Aryan, two of the most entitled, bigoted heritages you'll come across.

Anyways, from what I understand, this system was established right after the civil rights movement. And I can understand that they would think it was necessary, because at the time, it was. And there are still parts of the country where people will get discriminated against in the workplace. But there are also more parts where discrimination isn't a problem that still wind up getting checked for AA. This seems like one of those things that should be left up to the state instead of the country, to me.

[pheonix561 2080]

But what if you're an asshole with a business! What then!!!!!

[Chimetals 344]

in trying to level the playing field, weve actually skewed it a different way. coming to my college with two X chromosomes and an intention in engineering, they laid out the bloody red carpet for me and every other XX with the same intentions.

however, while its application in job-land is counter-intuitive, when it comes to colleges and certain degrees, it still has a good reason for existing. americas "gender equality" has resulted in women being able to vote, drive, own houses, blah blah blah. but there is still definitively an expected "male" behavior, and a "female" behavior. for example, a guy staying home and raising the kids while his wife works isnt considered masculine, or that "women should be nurses, men should be doctors"--the male/female jobs--crap like this still exists. women typically get paid 2/3 what men do, when doing the same job, and having the same qualifications. engineering is severely male-dominated, and women tend to be more education/care oriented in careers. so scholarships and programs angled specifically at females in "male" fields is logical. same with certain minorities, who tend to have higher poverty rates/lower college education rates.

unfortunately, this still results in being a white male is being at a disadvantage--there arent as many programs for guys out there, unless theyre going into a "female" career. scholarships, likewise, are less common, based on merit and tireless essays, and a lot of luck/competition.

the workplace, like you said, isnt as applicable a use of AA--not only do employers have to worry about the race (or sex) card getting played (and some people sure do like to spam it) but for the people that get hired, they have to worry about whether or not theyre just the token race/sex for the company. even more so if theyre both a minority, and female. if there are still a decent number of people being hired like that--being legitimately hired for their minority, for the sake of having the minority, and not out of fear of the race card getting played--then AA is still needed for that region.

[Cirt 612]

Affirmative Action is America's guilt for being dicks to the previously under-privileged citizens, or that's how I see it. Yes, it is still legal racism. Yes, I took it as an opportunity to get into my top choice university five months before most people were accepted into it, as a hispanic female. Eventually - like our offspring - will not have to deal with affirmative action as much, as there will be no "dominant" race or ethnicity in America by 2050. That might start tugging the chords to choose applicants by merit, but then again, there will always be people who didn't come from the best financial status and actually do need help.

It does suck though. Giving out money to people who need it and choosing who gets it will always look bad in someone's eyes.

and chimetals, I can't say that I agree with most females being more "education/care oriented" nowadays. That might have been applicable about thirty to forty years ago, but the majority of female graduates and students I see now are business majors. hell, my roommates major in dietetics (heavy science), poli sci pre-law, and mass media broadcast journalism. I'm not saying that there isn't a majority of females in my education major, because there certainly is, but it's not the most common major picked by females anymore.

then again, when have stereotypes ever been accurate

[Sahaqiel 1232]

I have to say, the sole fact that gender stereotypes exist is the only reason I'd find it more refreshing if we had a female programming in our computer science course. Because adhering to stereotypes, a female person in the classroom would be different, because it's all guys. Which is why I really appreciate that we got beat at a programming contest by an all female team once. I want to see more of things like that, so I don't blame people for encouraging individuals of different races or sexes to take up careers that generally are devoid in having people with those traits.

The AA thing is to supposedly make it fairer for people who are seen as generally less well off, but what would really make it fair is if the name, race, sex, and maybe even address were all stricken from the record when the scholarshipfolk are giving out scholarships. The fact that those areas are even on the form are proof that it's biased towards or against certain groups on terms of culture and chromosomes. If it were based solely on merit, no one would have to see those things unless they need the name and address and are sending them an approval.

Sahaqiel

[Chimetals 344]

The AA thing is to supposedly make it fairer for people who are seen as generally less well off, but what would really make it fair is if the name, race, sex, and maybe even address were all stricken from the record when the scholarshipfolk are giving out scholarships. The fact that those areas are even on the form are proof that it's biased towards or against certain groups on terms of culture and chromosomes. If it were based solely on merit, no one would have to see those things unless they need the name and address and are sending them an approval.

Sahaqiel

this is why whenever i see one of those forms, im always tempted to pick "other" and then make up crap in the box that pops up. not even existing things, mind you, but to just start spawning words.

@Cirt

im just going off my high school socio/psych course from...two years ago now? its definitely improved for girls, yeah, but me being in an engineering field means that i do hear about "woah so many girls"/"its nothing but guys aaa" class descriptors. and we didnt learn about the glass ceiling/glass escalator for nothing, either.

there will be no "dominant" race or ethnicity in America by 2050.

i like to consider myself an american of the purest blood. because while most americans like to trace their ancestory down to the last 32nd of whatever nationality...i cant. i cant because my parents cant. ive asked them, and gotten a response with question marks after most of the races. "well, uh, polish, and your dads irish...i think. a little bit, at least. somewhere. red hair and such. uhhhhhh, german? probably some european? sweedish? are we sweedish? illigitimate native american? no wait that was some aunt, so that wouldnt apply to you...scottish? I DONT EVEN"

[Sahaqiel 1232]

European descent !>!@>

Honestly I feel more bad about the Native Americans. They kind of took a lot more crap from European descent settlers than the Africans. You know. The "crap" part being genocide, then isolation onto unfamiliar lands, attempt to "reform" by destruction of culture, etc. etc. I mean, none of what was done to any of the discriminated-against ethnicities are good, but I mean, the natives' problems are far greater than they have recognition for. Look on any alcoholism chart and you'll see that their alcoholism is greater in number than any other ethnic group or race.

Sahaqiel

[Chimetals 344]

and thats not to mention that the entire genocide ordeal is rather understated in history classes when compared to the civil war/slavery issue, and jews in WWII. "and the english immigrated over, and there was the thanksgiving dinner, and happy happy happy, the trail of tears happened ANDWEREALLFRIENDSNOW"

[Grandmaster Phoenix 26]

in trying to level the playing field, weve actually skewed it a different way. coming to my college with two X chromosomes and an intention in engineering, they laid out the bloody red carpet for me and every other XX with the same intentions.

however, while its application in job-land is counter-intuitive, when it comes to colleges and certain degrees, it still has a good reason for existing. americas "gender equality" has resulted in women being able to vote, drive, own houses, blah blah blah. but there is still definitively an expected "male" behavior, and a "female" behavior. for example, a guy staying home and raising the kids while his wife works isnt considered masculine, or that "women should be nurses, men should be doctors"--the male/female jobs--crap like this still exists. women typically get paid 2/3 what men do, when doing the same job, and having the same qualifications. engineering is severely male-dominated, and women tend to be more education/care oriented in careers. so scholarships and programs angled specifically at females in "male" fields is logical. same with certain minorities, who tend to have higher poverty rates/lower college education rates.

unfortunately, this still results in being a white male is being at a disadvantage--there arent as many programs for guys out there, unless theyre going into a "female" career. scholarships, likewise, are less common, based on merit and tireless essays, and a lot of luck/competition.

the workplace, like you said, isnt as applicable a use of AA--not only do employers have to worry about the race (or sex) card getting played (and some people sure do like to spam it) but for the people that get hired, they have to worry about whether or not theyre just the token race/sex for the company. even more so if theyre both a minority, and female. if there are still a decent number of people being hired like that--being legitimately hired for their minority, for the sake of having the minority, and not out of fear of the race card getting played--then AA is still needed for that region.

Actually, the field in which women work in GREATLY affects pay ratio, and it averages to be around 75% (Which still, is unacceptable). And in Australia, women actually make more on average than men.

And another thing-Where I work hires mentally handicapped people and they work around people that are not mentally handicapped. (Warning: I am going to sound like an asshole in the next few sentences. I am not intentionally being an asshole.) The reason they are hired is because they get money from the state for hiring them. Not only does it make us unfomfortable because we don't know what to do when they start acting out in front of customers, but they slow down the whole process of the store. This same idea applies to affirmative action everywhere- We are going to give you some kind of reward/punishment based on wether you hire this unqualified minority/female or this qualified majority/male. Its just outright inefficent.

Affirmative Action is America's guilt for being dicks to the previously under-privileged citizens, or that's how I see it. Yes, it is still legal racism. Yes, I took it as an opportunity to get into my top choice university five months before most people were accepted into it, as a hispanic female. Eventually - like our offspring - will not have to deal with affirmative action as much, as there will be no "dominant" race or ethnicity in America by 2050. That might start tugging the chords to choose applicants by merit, but then again, there will always be people who didn't come from the best financial status and actually do need help.

It does suck though. Giving out money to people who need it and choosing who gets it will always look bad in someone's eyes.

and chimetals, I can't say that I agree with most females being more "education/care oriented" nowadays. That might have been applicable about thirty to forty years ago, but the majority of female graduates and students I see now are business majors. hell, my roommates major in dietetics (heavy science), poli sci pre-law, and mass media broadcast journalism. I'm not saying that there isn't a majority of females in my education major, because there certainly is, but it's not the most common major picked by females anymore.

then again, when have stereotypes ever been accurate

One of the biggest problems is, that I'm being punished...for something I didn't do/wasn't responsable for/and it happened before I was born. Where is the logic in this?

[Cascade 741]

And in Australia, women actually make more on average than men.

No.

[Grandmaster Phoenix 26]

As of my last check, this is true, though the margin is barely even there. Its like 1/100 of 1% or something.

[Cirt 612]

As of my last check, this is true, though the margin is barely even there. Its like 1/100 of 1% or something.

on every other leap year's salary

I'm squidding, this just sounded ridiculous.

[Chase 390]

I don't see many woman paying child support. There are very few cases where the man even gets custody of his child. I would rather fight about that than the whole "woman earn less" argument because it's usually stupid.