Posted 12 Sep 2008 It's also amusing to see how other people assume what God knows. Also, Zeldafan, listen closely. This, and Wild West, are the only two "dirty" forums on this board. The porn thread doesn't say "Porn, sin, gimme", it says, "Porn: What do you think about it? Woohoo! Sick! Gimme! Sin!" Everything that is exclaimed is an option for response. Do you think it's sick? Do you want it? Is it a sin? THAT is what it's asking. It's not saying that whoever posts in it wants sin, porn, or whatever. In any thought process, the idea of a God is highly unlikely. The difference between text books and the Bible is that everything in text books can be observed, given you have enough knowledge regarding the studied text, while nothing in the Bible can be proven. God "made an appearance" in the bible, but God no longer appears today. It's like referencing Bigfoot, or the Loch Ness Monster. Sahaqiel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 13 Sep 2008 And we must also realize that while we are trying to restrict God to science by asking "if your gonna ask where the first adom from the big bang came from, where did God come from" we must realize that Christians never claimed to have a possible way of proving God. Science has claimed they can prove the big bang without a doubt.....where's the proof???? Besides, as science diggs deeper into the truth of evolution, they hit snags that contradict their theories, so they have to alter them. Christianity has never and i mean NEVER hit a contradicting snag yet...... what about the fact that the bible says that the world has existed for about 6000 years, while science can PROVE that it has existed for a longer time? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 13 Sep 2008 Holy gawd, what? Neutrons are SUBatomic particles. Atoms are made up OF Neutrons/Protons. There is no different matter besides atoms. He's asking where all the atoms came from. Possibly other universes. Eternity doesn't really make sense any way you put it, which is why it's difficult to explain. "God can have existed forever because he's God." This is the equivalent of "just because". Which a lot of God theories seem to be based upon. C'mon, you can do better than that! I've seen some awesome religious arguments that implement science. Sahaqiel I didn't even know what I was saying. What do you mean "other universes?" Uni means one, and verse is... I don't know, but there must be one universe. Allow me to rephrase my argument. If there was matter in the black hole that exploded to create all matter, where did the initial matter come from? The matter couldn't have created itself, and if it was involved in causing the Big Bang, where did it come from? Also, science contradicts itself. The laws of conservation of energy and matter state that neither matter or energy can be created or destroyed; it can only change forms. If the Big Bang theory is totally correct, than the laws of conservation would have to have been violated. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? they came from atoms. Well it did. Oh well let it be violated. Even though I just said those things, I do not. Well some of you are saying that God cannot be true because you can't see him.....tell that to moses....and i havn't seen any big bangs lately either. You can prove the big bang as easily as i can rpove God....YOU CAN'T....Like i said before...both theories of God or big bang go on pure faith.....you just have to believe in one or the other. And so what if scientists do end up making a black hole......how does that prove big bang? we already know black holes exist.....And the alternate universe theory...where alternate universes have different laws of physics.....thats about as....how would you put it...."absured" as believing in God....All "universes" are linked to ours somehow in outer space. The only way alternate rules of physics in another place is possible is in alternate realms...... And we must also realize that while we are trying to restrict God to science by asking "if your gonna ask where the first adom from the big bang came from, where did God come from" we must realize that Christians never claimed to have a possible way of proving God. Science has claimed they can prove the big bang without a doubt.....where's the proof???? Besides, as science diggs deeper into the truth of evolution, they hit snags that contradict their theories, so they have to alter them. Christianity has never and i mean NEVER hit a contradicting snag yet...... Believing in God may not make a whole lot of sense.....scientifically.....but we never claimed it would.....The big bang is the only theory here that is restricted to mortal life's limited understanding. We also assume the God is restricted to physics.....I never said he was....nor will you find anywhere in the bible that is says he was. And if we start doubting the bible, then i classify it only fair to doubt the text books. Yes the bible was writen by people that we assume (or don't assume) were telling the truth, but when you stop to think....so aren't text books? And i also never said that science and God cannot co-exist they can and they do.....but i believe that science is not beyond God.....God kows that Humans have a deep passion for knowing why things happen....So i think God gave us science to prove such things. And no....God knew that science would be used one day to try and prove him wrong. The bible talks about that too. Not specifics, but that essentialy Humans will try anything and everyhting to convince themselves that God does not exist. And just remember...i am not here to offend anyone....we all have freedom of thought and freedom of opinion...so whoever dsaid that atheists were like brick walls.......please....no more offensive comments....this is a discussion, not a witch hunt ok? Who's moses? The atom made its self. He came from no where considering he does not exist. The bible is like a million pages long. No one can read it all, and if they can they have no life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 13 Sep 2008 As a religious person, you should still have some sense. The existence of the Big Bang doesn't disprove your religion. If anything, the violation of the conservation of matter and energy should give you something to attribute to your God, rather than trying to use it to disprove science. If you think science is wrong, you're a puppying joke. Instead, figure out the best way you can unite your belief in God with the laws of science. That doesn't have to mean that God can be explained by science, and it doesn't have to mean that God doesn't exist. It does mean that you should form your own opinions instead of being a tool. Science is right, but science isn't claiming that God doesn't exist. Use your sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 13 Sep 2008 Well considering the fact that most of you guys here are atheist why would I try and argue with a brick wall XD! But you know saying that you believe in nothing makes you doubtful,makes you depressing,and makes you rape babies!Well thats the theory anyway? Do you realize the more you question things (preferably with supportive evidence) the more intelligent you are? Blindly following what people tell you is not intelligent. Let me point out that even if you do question something, you can always end up believing in it again. In fact, doing so can actually renew and strengthen your faith. -An open-minded aethiest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 14 Sep 2008 what about the fact that the bible says that the world has existed for about 6000 years, while science can PROVE that it has existed for a longer time? Ok...actually the bible never says ANYTHING about how old the world is and it is older than 6 thousand years old.......even i could have told you that. Please...... As a religious person, you should still have some sense. The existence of the Big Bang doesn't disprove your religion. If anything, the violation of the conservation of matter and energy should give you something to attribute to your God, rather than trying to use it to disprove science. If you think science is wrong, you're a puppying joke. Instead, figure out the best way you can unite your belief in God with the laws of science. That doesn't have to mean that God can be explained by science, and it doesn't have to mean that God doesn't exist. It does mean that you should form your own opinions instead of being a tool. Science is right, but science isn't claiming that God doesn't exist. Use your sense. Hold on....didn;t i just get done saying in one of my previous "rants" that science and religion can co-exist? I know they can....And i also said that the world was started by a big bang earlier...but i do not believe in the same way as some other people do. Yes...science can co-exist with religion. I also do not like being called a tool and i do not like how you assume that because i do not think like you that i follow someone elses words without investigating them on my own. I have....and i have DECIDED...ok...DECIDED to believe in God. In any thought process, the idea of a God is highly unlikely. The difference between text books and the Bible is that everything in text books can be observed, given you have enough knowledge regarding the studied text, while nothing in the Bible can be proven. God "made an appearance" in the bible, but God no longer appears today. It's like referencing Bigfoot, or the Loch Ness Monster. Sahaqiel 1. Yes things in the bible can be proven. Things have been proven....not all things...but some things....alot like text books no? Some things can be proven...but not all things.....I still have not seen proof for the big bang theory for instance. And no...God does not appear today...but neither do big bangs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 14 Sep 2008 1. Yes things in the bible can be proven. Things have been proven....not all things...but some things....alot like text books no? Some things can be proven...but not all things.....I still have not seen proof for the big bang theory for instance. And no...God does not appear today...but neither do big bangs. No, nothing in the Bible can be proven, because things in the Bible do not occur today. However, things described in text books have been going on since the beginning of an inhabitable Earth. They still go on today. Proof of the big bang lies beyond my means of explanation. If you've ever read The Elegant Universe, you might be able to get some interesting theories. And Ralon, stop multiposting. I'll merge your posts together ONE MORE TIME. The edit button is there for a reason. After that, all multiposts will be deleted and your warn level raised. Sahaqiel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 14 Sep 2008 (edited) Do you realize the more you question things (preferably with supportive evidence) the more intelligent you are? Blindly following what people tell you is not intelligent. Let me point out that even if you do question something, you can always end up believing in it again. In fact, doing so can actually renew and strengthen your faith. -An open-minded aethiest. I actually agree with you completely. I have questioned myself before and went back to the bible and convinced myself again. I have never believed that atheists are dumb.....in fact some of the smartest people i know are atheists...on that note though...some of the other smartest people i know are Christians. right..no multiposting...sorry anyways...yes i do believe that things in the bible happen today....in fact....you tell me some that don't Edited 14 Sep 2008 by Ralon (see edit history) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 14 Sep 2008 Well, I don't know, dude. I don't think God speaks to people today, and even back then, speaking to God involved starving yourself for unreasonable amounts of time. People don't normally turn rivers into blood. The only way someone can create a grape juice based drink today is with either actual grapes or artificial stuff like drink mixes. As for the Roman soldiers cowering in fear at Jesus' cross because of the eclipse and following earthquake, eclipses theoretically increases the chances that earthquakes occur. There's a country that celebrates the eclipses by waiting for the following earthquake, that actually happens most of the time. Anything called a miracle is normally all down to chance. Sahaqiel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 15 Sep 2008 (edited) Well, I don't know, dude. I don't think God speaks to people today, and even back then, speaking to God involved starving yourself for unreasonable amounts of time. People don't normally turn rivers into blood. The only way someone can create a grape juice based drink today is with either actual grapes or artificial stuff like drink mixes. As for the Roman soldiers cowering in fear at Jesus' cross because of the eclipse and following earthquake, eclipses theoretically increases the chances that earthquakes occur. There's a country that celebrates the eclipses by waiting for the following earthquake, that actually happens most of the time. Anything called a miracle is normally all down to chance. Sahaqiel I see what you are saying and i agree. God isn't as "social" as he was in the old testiment. But that is also partially because he was social to his people (the Jews) and when Jesus was crucified it had alot to do with what the Jews wanted, so for the time being God has turned his back on the Jewish people and turned his eyes to us, the gentiles (Non Jews). Miracles are not as prevailent as they were back then....but personally....i think that a country as small as Isreal still being in existance is phenominal...especially since they have been attacked and persecuted so many times. Whether God is real or not....I know the truth. Because even though science can't prove it to me. I know the proof of a changed life. Of people who couldn't hack addictions. Then they met God and almost insttantly they got the strength to give up drugs. And Micheal Francise....became a christian while he was in the mob. One of the ring leaders in new york to be exact. And now, he is the only man who left the mob and is still alive to tell the story...and it isn't like he hides in the Shadows...no....he is a public speaker on his experiences and has writen a book on it too. People without hope and people with nothing left to live for all found comfort in God. I know how i feel and i know how they feel and THAT is enough proof for me.... I know that feelings are not a scientific basis for proof, but its good enough for me.....and its good enough for them too Edited 15 Sep 2008 by Ralon (see edit history) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 15 Sep 2008 I see what you are saying and i agree. God isn't as "social" as he was in the old testiment. But that is also partially because he was social to his people (the Jews) and when Jesus was crucified it had alot to do with what the Jews wanted, so for the time being God has turned his back on the Jewish people and turned his eyes to us, the gentiles (Non Jews). Miracles are not as prevailent as they were back then....but personally....i think that a country as small as Isreal still being in existance is phenominal...especially since they have been attacked and persecuted so many times. Whether God is real or not....I know the truth. Because even though science can't prove it to me. I know the proof of a changed life. Of people who couldn't hack addictions. Then they met God and almost insttantly they got the strength to give up drugs. And Micheal Francise....became a christian while he was in the mob. One of the ring leaders in new york to be exact. And now, he is the only man who left the mob and is still alive to tell the story...and it isn't like he hides in the Shadows...no....he is a public speaker on his experiences and has writen a book on it too. People without hope and people with nothing left to live for all found comfort in God. I know how i feel and i know how they feel and THAT is enough proof for me.... I know that feelings are not a scientific basis for proof, but its good enough for me.....and its good enough for them too Well you can't accurately say that God exists because He inspires people to change their lives. It could simply be their own belief in God that inspires them. People also believe in bigfoot and are inspired to dedicating their free time to prove his existence. But hell, there's nothing wrong with that. If it comforts you, believe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 15 Sep 2008 There is another reason God doesn't talk to people anymore. The reason: people don't really listen, or even want to talk to Him anymore. People have this tendancy to think that they can etake care of themselves with no help from God. I really don't know if I should say this, but I will anyway. You can't know the feeling of being saved unless you have been saved. The reason that people say that the changes in your life after being saved isn't enough proof is that they don't know just how real those changes are. I could tell you for days how wonderful it is to know God, but you wouldn't believe me unless you live what I'm living. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 15 Sep 2008 There is another reason God doesn't talk to people anymore. The reason: people don't really listen, or even want to talk to Him anymore. People have this tendancy to think that they can etake care of themselves with no help from God. I really don't know if I should say this, but I will anyway. You can't know the feeling of being saved unless you have been saved. The reason that people say that the changes in your life after being saved isn't enough proof is that they don't know just how real those changes are. I could tell you for days how wonderful it is to know God, but you wouldn't believe me unless you live what I'm living. Wait wait wait wait wait. If god is souposed in heaven then how is he suposed to talk to people? Does he go to some cloud elevator that he takes down to earth? Again, how can you really "know" god if he is suposed to to be in heaven!? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 15 Sep 2008 God is omniscient and omnipresent. He can communicate with us because he is everywhere, and he'll help you if you ask him to. You have to be sincere, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
