Posted 16 Sep 2008 I really don't know if I should say this, but I will anyway. You can't know the feeling of being saved unless you have been saved. The reason that people say that the changes in your life after being saved isn't enough proof is that they don't know just how real those changes are. I could tell you for days how wonderful it is to know God, but you wouldn't believe me unless you live what I'm living. I don't think that you can reasonably dismiss the possibility that you are only attributing your being saved to God. If you could it would come down to proof of existence... and there is none. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 Sep 2008 well like he said...we don't expect you to understand how we feel because you are not saved (by the way, saved is the term we use for coming to the point where you know you need God and ask him to forgive you and come into your life). And another reason why he doesn't talk to people...is because people don't want to talk to him. If some guy doesn't like you and doesn't want to talk to you, even though you have tried to reconcile with him....(by the way you saved this person's life)..... would you stick your neck out to talk to him? Yes God loves us, but saying that, he isn't going to treat us like babies. You don't want to see him? He won't show himself. Now saying that.... i don't mean that people actually see Jesus.....(showing himself is another term we use for him revealing himself to you). Now God doesn't pick up the phone to talk to you and doesn't have to see you....we cannot limit God to human restrictions...he is a spiritual being. Basically he is far beyond anything anyone can understand.....of course...can anyone expect to understand the creator of life and the universe (given that you believe in him). God loves us all whether we want it. He is there all the time waiting for us to come to him. Those who choose to look for logical explanations to everything will never meat god. To know God is to give up this tight grip on having to know how everything works, to give up our limited human knowledge, and invest our thoughts and beings in something bigger than us. We can look for a logical explanation for everything and spend our whole lives doing it, in turn, rubbing Jesus' sacrifice in his face the whole time or we can give it all up and just run to the one who will never leave us and never stop loving us. Some would rather stand and fight and live our lives on our own because "we don't need a god". Many believe that he doesn't fit our lifestyle. He is a thing of the past....he is when our lives are good. But then the walls come crashing down, the defenses fall and our world is ripped to shreds. In this time we have a choice...live by ourselves or choose God. Many choose to live on their own......that is sometimes the last chance people get. and i pity those people. I could not live without jesus. Yeah maybe he doesn't exist, maybe he is just a crutch, but he is a crutch that i want and need. A hand to help me when i fall, an always present helper in a time of need. A father, a friend a God. Jesus is my life and my all and if I had nothing else but jesus, that would be fine. He's all i need. And if a feeling will do that....if a simple belief in something that isn't true is what does that for me....then i wouldn't give up this belief, this "feeling" for all the money in the world. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 Sep 2008 "Basically he is far beyond anything anyone can understand....." This is an excuse, I'm sorry to say. Another thing is that God is supposedly in Heaven, which was previously believed to be in the sky. Welp, there's no God there, so far. Funny trivial thing about my name. Sahaqiel is an archangel that owns the sky/fourth heaven. He is the thing that "separates man from God". However, Sahaqiel's domain is the one most easily disprovable. I rofl at the irony. Sahaqiel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 Sep 2008 I wish to change the topic for a moment. I have, in the past, called myself a Christian. I would like to make it known that I actually follow Jewish traditions and I do celebrate Jewish holidays. I will continue to call myself a Christian, however, because I believe in Jesus Christ and I believe that the New Testament is just as true as the Old Testament. I'm not sure why I felt like telling you guys that, but I did. I am a born again Christian, but I uphold the same traditions as those who walked with Jesus. It just seems right to me. Returning to the discussion, however, heaven isn't in the sky. It isn't even on the same plane of existance as the earth. It's a spiritual place that humans can't get to by any physical means. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 Sep 2008 This is stated in the Bible? Sahaqiel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 Sep 2008 "Basically he is far beyond anything anyone can understand....." This is an excuse, I'm sorry to say. Another thing is that God is supposedly in Heaven, which was previously believed to be in the sky. Welp, there's no God there, so far. Funny trivial thing about my name. Sahaqiel is an archangel that owns the sky/fourth heaven. He is the thing that "separates man from God". However, Sahaqiel's domain is the one most easily disprovable. I rofl at the irony. Sahaqiel ok...so...are you not going to be happy until i say your right, God doesn't exist and im on drugs? well im sorry to say, but i won't and can't say that. I do not expect you to admit that i am right, because like i said, as long as we are limited to logic, we can never fully accept God. You call that an excuse...i call it the truth. Some things cannot be seen, but don't have to be. The wind for instance...have you ever seen wind. No, but you know it is there because you see the effects of it right? does wind have mass or an individual molecular structure? No, but we know it exists. We see the effects of it all the time. We can choose to not believe in god and say that we are not accountable to him because he doesn't exist, but i could also jump off a building and not believe that i will hit the ground....will I? or will it simply disappear. What if god is true. What are you so afraid of that makes you fight tooth and nail to prove that he isnt. This argument isn't even about whether creation or evolution is true anymore, is it? This is about whether God exists or not. Why is it that people never attack Buddhists when they say believe in Buddhism, or Hindu's when they say that they believe in Brahmin? Why is it that as soon as someone like me says they believe in God all of a sudden it is a huge offense? Why? I think that it isn't a coincidence. I think its because if Buddhism is true or Hinduism is true than we can all go living our life the way we want to, but as soon as god is mentioned...all of a sudden, deep down we know he exists and we know that if he is true, then we know we have to change our life. We don't want that. We don't want accountability, so we fight to the death to prove he doesn't exist.I gave up that fight. And i have found that life is richer when i let go of the need for proof and live for the one God in faith. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 Sep 2008 (edited) @Saha Not in so many words, but He did separate the Earth from Heaven. He also says that a man cannot get into Heaven by any physical means, so it seems to be understandable that it isn't in the sky. Edited 16 Sep 2008 by shadowknight (see edit history) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 Sep 2008 (edited) Not in so many words, but He did separate the Earth from Heaven. He also says that a man cannot get into Heaven by any physical means, so it seems to be understandable that it isn't in the sky. it actually says multiple times that when we enter heaven we will be given new bodies, spiritual bodies. p.s i think that is totally cool how you observe the jewish festivals AND are a born again christian....props for Jesus LOL! Edited 16 Sep 2008 by Ralon (see edit history) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 Sep 2008 Returning to the discussion, however, heaven isn't in the sky. It isn't even on the same plane of existance as the earth. It's a spiritual place that humans can't get to by any physical means. Yeah it is, what are you talking about. God's bowling when it's raining, you know. He's just hiding behind the clouds. He gets a strike everytime, that's why it's loud. WHO DO YOU THINK IS MAKING THE LIGHTNING? Bananas? GOSH, AND YOU CALL YOURSELF A CHRISTIAN. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 Sep 2008 "does wind have mass or an individual molecular structure? No," What? Yes it does. Air is made up of two parts Oxygen, three parts Nitrogen. Sahaqiel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 Sep 2008 (edited) "does wind have mass or an individual molecular structure? No," What? Yes it does. Air is made up of two parts Oxygen, three parts Nitrogen. Sahaqiel true but air is not wind......wind is a form of energy, kinetic to be exact. And energy, as everybody knows, has no mass or molecular stucture. No? Wind is simply the movement or displacement of air molecules caused by kinetic energy. Edited 16 Sep 2008 by Ralon (see edit history) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 Sep 2008 Energy equals mass times the speed of light squared. Sahaqiel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 Sep 2008 Energy equals mass times the speed of light squared. Sahaqiel that sounds more like the equation for sight to me. Go ask a science teacher...they will all tell you that energy has no mass. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 Sep 2008 Energy itself doesn't have mass because it isn't matter, and the equation was the equation for the actual energy that an object has. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 16 Sep 2008 When I first posted it, I was partially joking. But then Nabeshin and I talked and now I've very angry with all the people who have apparently been feeding me false information on general relativity. Unless Nabe's the one that is. Either way, I'm not saying you should give up your God, but I'm saying that you should let your God at least TRY to be in synch with logic. You say that God is apparently not logical. Does the Bible reference this? If not, then you're stuffing words in your holy texts. Perhaps people back then didn't believe that God needed to be logical. It's only natural for people to want a protective figure and something to look forward to after death. It even teaches some good morals, give or take a few things. But blindly following something... That's something I have a hard time coping with. That being stubbornness. I'm not saying you guys are stubborn, but it would be nice to have some logical proof. It's impossible for God to have existed before time, and why would God even have paid such special attention to Earth? God apparently created stars and such after Earth, but clearly, this is not so. Sahaqiel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
