Forming a more perfect timeline theory

[Slagr 0]

I just think it splits with Ocarina of Time and merges again in the distant future. You're going to have to deal with it.

then you're going to have to prove it. =)

[Teto 2609]

In due time, it will one of us will be proven right, the other; wrong.

But for now all we can do is debate. Just keep in mind that I'm new to this whole timeline thing and I haven't played many Zelda games, though I know a modest amount about the history.

All I can do for now is offer theories for you to back up or debunk. Take nothing I say from here on as my solid belief unless I say so.

Anyway, I would place The Minish Cap after Wind Waker on the supposed second side of the split timeline. Have you any way to debunk or back up this theory, Mr. Database?

[Slagr 0]

Anyway, I would place The Minish Cap after Wind Waker on the supposed second side of the split timeline. Have you any way to debunk or back up this theory, Mr. Database?

did you read the last 4 pages of this thread?

there's not much to prove tMC-OoT necessarily, but there is enough to prove OoT-TP-LttP (CT). Since tMC-FSS-LttP is confirmed, then tMC first makes the most sense.

[Teto 2609]

did you read the last 4 pages of this thread?

there's not much to prove tMC-OoT necessarily, but there is enough to prove OoT-TP-LttP (CT). Since tMC-FSS-LttP is confirmed, then tMC first makes the most sense.

No, I haven't. I repeat: I'm new to all of this.

Anyway, you say that there's proof, but I see none. I'm sure you can quote the evidence necessary from previous posts?

[Sahaqiel 1232]

"with (...)tMC-...-FS-...-FSA-LttP arc also confirmed."

Fixed.

Also, I've never seen anything that even implies the Hero's Shade is accepted generally.

And since you've started posting, where is the counterargument for my spoilered out portion? >

Sahaqiel

[Slagr 0]

"with (...)tMC-...-FS-...-FSA-LttP arc also confirmed."

Fixed.

I knew I forgot some dots somewhere. Bear in mind those mean "possible game interruption."

Also, I've never seen anything that even implies the Hero's Shade is accepted generally.

Well, some people on other forums think that. It's not exactly relevant in any case. OoT-TP does happen regardless.

And since you've started posting, where is the counterargument for my spoilered out portion? >

Sahaqiel

PLEASE DO NOT REPLY YET. This post is under construction, and should be disregarded until I'm completed. Please take this time to gather your own counter arguments.

this is why.

The language of Old Hylian could easily be a lost dialect. The language evolved with the written word, therefore the dialect was unfamiliar with Modern Hylian speakers despite the fact the text was displayed as Modern Hylian. They're the same syllabary either way. "Ka" in Old Hylian is the same as "Ka" in Modern Hylian, etc.

The fact that it's written everywhere in Wind Waker is enough to prove the use of Old Hylian is dead in Wind Waker, therefore any placement of the language would be evidence of modern placement.

sounds good. I asked to clarify the matter, not provide evidence to my case. The use of WW Hylian only implies post-WW placement if the language occurs in the story or for something important. Random graphical features like library books are not important.

Capcom obviously had to go to Nintendo to get the text for Modern Hylian. You think Nintendo would be like, "Hey, since you're setting it earlier than Ocarina of Time, we'll give you the Old Hylian pack instead of the Modern one, to avoid confusion, since that's what we did with Twilight Princess to give people evidence that the text used in Ocarina of Time is long gone."

Again, you're assuming Nintendo gave them any directions at all. if there are no uses of the language in the storyline, Nintendo would not have made a point of giving them a specific language. They went with the most recent.

Even if they didn't care as much, this would be something pretty important to miss.

And if they didn't care, I don't believe they'd put the text in Twilight Princess.

It's not as important as you seem to think it is. The only reason anyone noticed that WW's differed from OoT's was because major characters actually spoke the language in the story. When Jabun appears in tMC's Lake Hylia and says something relevant to the story in WW Hylian, then it will be important. Also, as I've said before, TP uses old Hylian because Aonuma is trying not to confuse the timeline further. Aonuma didn't make tMC.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

When the Hylian language was used in Wind Waker, it was only because there were characters that knew a language that was unfamiliar to society at the time. There weren't such characters in Minish Cap.

I still want to know what gives you the right to judge things insignificant.

This isn't a bias, this is a logical query. :|

Sahaqiel

[Slagr 0]

When the Hylian language was used in Wind Waker, it was only because there were characters that knew a language that was unfamiliar to society at the time. There weren't such characters in Minish Cap.

Maybe they weren't born yet. =D

I still want to know what gives you the right to judge things insignificant.

This isn't a bias, this is a logical query. :|

I've told you, it's whether or not the language appears IN THE STORY. The graphic designers are not necessarily informed or mindful of the intricacies of the story. WW clearly uses the language for storyline purposes. tMC has only graphical extras.

Sahaqiel

I'm also told some of the TP graves have WW Hylian writing.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

They don't.

And you still can't judge things insignificant because nobody who can actually have a meaningful say in it hasn't said that it isn't. You're passing your judgment as law. All I hear is that it IS NOT relevant when in fact, your judgments are more irrelevant. Your argument has moved from IT MIGHT NOT BE relevant to IT IS NOT RELEVANT.

I don't see where I've blocked any information you've given me.

Just because it's not in the story, there's nothing to say that it can't be important or not.

I've even accepted your Vaati poster as a form of proof.

Sahaqiel

Edited 15 May 2009 by Sahaqiel (see edit history)

[Slagr 0]

They don't.

And you still can't judge things insignificant because nobody who can actually have a meaningful say in it hasn't said that it isn't. You're passing your judgment as law. All I hear is that it IS NOT relevant when in fact, your judgments are more irrelevant. Your argument has moved from IT MIGHT NOT BE relevant to IT IS NOT RELEVANT.

I may have said it's not relevant when I meant it might not be. I'm attempting to stress the latter as best I can though.

I don't see where I've blocked any information you've given me.

remember my post that started all of this? I asked for WW-tMC evidence and said I'd try and disprove it. You haven't discounted anything I've posted because I haven't posted it. I will though, maybe tomorrow.

Just because it's not in the story, there's nothing to say that it can't be important or not.

We should not be looking at what the developers are showing us. We should be looking for what the developers are trying to show us. If the language was meant to mean something, they could have put it in a more important role.

I've even accepted your Vaati poster as a form of proof.

Sahaqiel

then we both have definitive proof that we're both right? I'd sooner discount the language and the poster.

EDIT:

number 21 is innacurate. The headbands are not in The Hylian Alphabet. It's using NEW NEW Hylian. The Hylian used in Wind Waker.

http://www.hyrule.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=3479

it's not the graves, but it's the same concept. I'll try to find, then get a screenshot, of the graves later.

Edited 15 May 2009 by Slagr (see edit history)

[Sahaqiel 1232]

We should not be looking at what the developers are showing us. We should be looking for what the developers are trying to show us. If the language was meant to mean something, they could have put it in a more important role.

Like Hena's scene.

Roooiiiiight.

then we both have definitive proof that we're both right? I'd sooner discount the language and the poster.

Not necessarily. The eye poster even bears slight resemblance to Gohma when she's standing on her stinger. And you hit her in the eye with your slingshot. So this would make sense for target practice. That and eyes have been an unfortunate target throughout the Zelda series. It also bears resemblance to Eyesoar.

it's not the graves, but it's the same concept. I'll try to find, then get a screenshot, of the graves later.

Admittedly, I was thinking of this the whole argument and was wondering if you'd ever get to it. Also, I laughed at the picture. However, this was the same in Ocarina of Time, I think. So it can be assumed WW Hylian branched off from OoT but died in the child timeline. It happened to a lot of stuff. Like Latin.

(If so, it'd be an interesting thought that modern Hylian was created by the Gerudo.)

Sahaqiel

[Slagr 0]

from Kakariko graveyard.

compare to: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/hylian2.htm

this basically kills any language-based argument eh? btw, the graves with OoT Hylian are boxy and upright, while every grave (about 8 in Kakariko and a lot in the castle graveyard) that is crooked and flat/thin (in comparison to the OoT ones) uses WW Hylian.

I'd like to interpret it as a means of rectifying its use in tMC. They may have originally wanted the language to imply post-WW, but since tMC used it (assuming they wanted it first) they used it again in TP to show that it does not necessarily imply a WW connection.

I have no idea what to make of its use in OoT.

EDIT: It appears to translate to "Heidake no kemi ni tewaete" or something to that effect, which subsequently translates to "To connect the people of the plain" or "in addition to the people of the plain."

http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-...p-findings.html

Edited 16 May 2009 by Slagr (see edit history)

[Teto 2609]

Fake pic.

[Slagr 0]

Fake pic.

really? check it out yourself then. Every crooked gravestone says that exact phrase.

[Teto 2609]

L IS REEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAL