Forming a more perfect timeline theory

[Teto 2609]

All we know is that Slagr and his lies are the only things keeping this topic alive, eh?

Edit: Thanks, Sahaqiel. Reading this topic has only made me think of how complicated all of this really is. All the subtleties fitting together like some huge, near impossible to solve, puzzle. Good thing we have you, Sahaqiel. I suck at jigsaws. D:

Edited 21 Apr 2009 by Rain (see edit history)

[Arcane 12]

Oh yeah! Kasuto.net! That's what it was....

And I suspected as much... :/

Anyways, back to Saha v.s. Slagr

(By the way, what happened to Nabe?)

[Sahaqiel 1232]

He bailed out because he was raging. He PM'd me to take his place.

And that's not very nice, Rain.

Sahaqiel

[Teto 2609]

He bailed out because he was raging. He PM'd me to take his place.

And that's not very nice, Rain.

Sahaqiel

Sorry, Sahaqiel. Do you mean me saying Slagr lies or me saying that we're just leaving it to you to deal with him? Because I want to know what I'm doing wrong. Because that's what nice people do; they learn their mistakes and adjust themselves.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

(It was about saying he's lying. There's no way to prove him wrong, but what he's saying is like "there's a giant Flying Spaghetti Monster that's invisible to humans and controls the universe and its beings". Nintendo hasn't nulled the legitimacy of Capcom's projects, but they haven't confirmed them either. But why would they need confirmation if they're considered legitimate Zelda titles with the official Nintendo Seal of Quality? They're not like the CD-i.)

I'm sorry if the evidence you're presenting is not definitive. If there is the possibility of an alternate explanation to something, like the New Hylian in tMC, then it does not prove anything.

Your smarminess makes me rage. If we're going by some certain standard of how definitive proof is, your proof is weaker than mine; you're not exactly going off proof more than you're going off on how "good enough" my proof is for you.

We don't have to discuss this if you don't want to, I just couldn't think of a better comeback. it was late.

Then I'll disregard the comment.

The TF was made when the Goddesses left Hyrule after creation. the royal family has arguably always had it. You could always discount the symbol in tMC as recycling WW stuff though if you wanted.

First off, why would I want to say that "recycling" somehow has a nulling effect on legitimate proof?

And about the Triforce, if they always had it, why do they know nothing about it, and have never seen it, yet have its symbol spread across the castle, assuming MC is first?

Sahaqiel

Edited 21 Apr 2009 by Sahaqiel (see edit history)

[Teto 2609]

(It was about saying he's lying. There's no way to prove him wrong, but what he's saying is like "there's a giant Flying Spaghetti Monster that's invisible to humans and controls the universe and its beings". Nintendo hasn't nulled the legitimacy of Capcom's projects, but they haven't confirmed them either. But why would they need confirmation if they're considered legitimate Zelda titles with the official Nintendo Seal of Quality? They're not like the CD-i.)

Yeah, but you get me. Slagr does have some pretty odd theories, but I didn't say it was all bad.

Sorry for the misunderstandings.

Also, your homework for the day is to list all the reasons why Twilight Princess is based before the Minish Cap. Karma for you if you explain the main points rather than going into evolutionary traits of different races and such. I'm still unclear on all of that. Or you could find some posts summing up what you would say, please? Kaaaarrrrrmaaaaa

[Sahaqiel 1232]

I'm too focused on the current debate, and if OoT is before MC, then it'd be healthy to assume TP is as well.

Also, nobody gives me karma.

Sahaqiel

[Teto 2609]

After you said that, it just rose from 8 -> 11. And it wasn't me.

[Slagr 0]

(It was about saying he's lying. There's no way to prove him wrong, but what he's saying is like "there's a giant Flying Spaghetti Monster that's invisible to humans and controls the universe and its beings". Nintendo hasn't nulled the legitimacy of Capcom's projects, but they haven't confirmed them either. But why would they need confirmation if they're considered legitimate Zelda titles with the official Nintendo Seal of Quality? They're not like the CD-i.)

the manga has the seal, does it not?

Your smarminess makes me rage. If we're going by some certain standard of how definitive proof is, your proof is weaker than mine; you're not exactly going off proof more than you're going off on how "good enough" my proof is for you.

Easter eggs are not proof unless the developers want them to mean something. For instance, the ToT from OoT-TP-LttP degrades at a steady pace and may have been intended as such. Just because some book in a library says "Triumph Forks" with no backing evidence or explanation does not make it definitive timeline evidence.

First off, why would I want to say that "recycling" somehow has a nulling effect on legitimate proof?

And about the Triforce, if they always had it, why do they know nothing about it, and have never seen it, yet have its symbol spread across the castle, assuming MC is first?

Sahaqiel

If LttP and TP's intros are correct, then the path to the TF opened at some point. This is when access to the power was available, and tMC would have been prior to that time. The symbol is a recycling of the series' common theme. Its arbitrary presence is the same as Triumph Forks.

Yeah, but you get me. Slagr does have some pretty odd theories, but I didn't say it was all bad.

Sorry for the misunderstandings.

Also, your homework for the day is to list all the reasons why Twilight Princess is based before the Minish Cap. Karma for you if you explain the main points rather than going into evolutionary traits of different races and such. I'm still unclear on all of that. Or you could find some posts summing up what you would say, please? Kaaaarrrrrmaaaaa

if tMC is not first, then the rest of the evidence points to post-WW/PH. There's no reason to believe it comes on the CT.

:|

"Canon, in terms of a fictional universe, is any material that is considered to be "genuine". Basically, something that is "canon" means that it is something that "actually happened" in that fictional universe."

Just thought you might need a definition.

I'll reply to the rest, as I said, a bit later.

Sahaqiel

yes, but if we use the Japanese translations of storylines and such, then a direct-to-English language, even if it appears in-game, may not be correct. Got any pictures of the Japanese TP language?

All we know is that Slagr and his lies are the only things keeping this topic alive, eh?

Also, Saha, I respect you, man, but lately you've stopped replying with counter-evidence and rather with, "baww you're not accepting this." Please keep it evidence based. Don't take that the wrong way.

Edited 21 Apr 2009 by Slagr (see edit history)

[Teto 2609]

if tMC is not first, then the rest of the evidence points to post-WW/PH. There's no reason to believe it comes on the CT.

Yes, I know. I didn't ask for what I already know. I asked for the evidence.

[Slagr 0]

Yes, I know. I didn't ask for what I already know. I asked for the evidence.

If it's after WW, then it's not after TP. Your question is moot.

[Teto 2609]

if tMC is not first, then the rest of the evidence points to post-WW/PH. There's no reason to believe it comes on the CT.

If it's after WW, then it's not after TP. Your question is moot.

For the love of God, just answer the puppying question!

Let me ask again, slowly. Where is your evidence? And by evidence I mean the evidence here.

if tMC is not first, then the rest of the evidence points to post-WW/PH. There's no reason to believe it comes on the CT.

What is the evidence?

Do you understand now? Or need I repeat myself?

[Sahaqiel 1232]

"Also, Saha, I respect you, man, but lately you've stopped replying with counter-evidence and rather with, "baww you're not accepting this." Please keep it evidence based. Don't take that the wrong way."

Then stop replying with, "Baww, this is insignificant because I say so." I do respect you as well, but you're pulling the God argument. A complete nullifying effect on anything you personally think is insignificant. If I state something you can't explain, you say it's not a big deal instead of conceding or backing up your stance with some evidence.

"The Octoroks are landwalking because they didn't want to rock the boat, however, they recycled the theme from the most recent game, Wind Waker. A direct reference to times past Wind Waker should also be disregarded because... well, just because. They're not significant, I guess."

The TP Hylian is the same in all versions. And actually, yes, now that I think about it, most of the things written in it were English.

"Master Sword", something about the Dominion Rod.

However, nothing you say or think can change the canon of the Hylian language in this series. Nothing. Not a thing. Nintendo put it there personally under their own will. It doesn't matter if it's based on the Roman alphabet.

Also,

"As for why they developed it, Nintendo is the final boss; they can make drastic changes like that. Capcom did not want to rewrite the language or wasn't allowed to, and didn't use OoT script because WW's was more recent."

If they weren't allowed to, wouldn't it imply Nintendo wanted modern Hylian in the game? :| This would only completely disprove everything your stance is for; Nintendo wants the modern script in the game, therefore making the game's position in the timeline after Ocarina of Time's.

"If LttP and TP's intros are correct, then the path to the TF opened at some point. This is when access to the power was available, and tMC would have been prior to that time. The symbol is a recycling of the series' common theme. Its arbitrary presence is the same as Triumph Forks."

What? What in the Goddess' names implies that Minish Cap would have been before this?

If anything, it implies that it happened before anything.

...But before seeking it, you must

now bear witness to something...

and never forget it.

You must know that it was the will

of the goddesses that we lock away

the forbidden power...

When all was chaos, the goddesses

descended and gave order and life

to the world.

They granted power equally to all

who dwelt in the light, and then

returned to the heavens.

The lands where the goddesses

descended came to be known as

the Sacred Realm.

For ages, the people lived at ease,

content in mind and body...

But soon, word of the Sacred Realm

spread through Hyrule, and a great

battle ensued...

So

Creation --> Peace -- > Battle over the Sacred Realm

"For ages, the people lived at ease, content in mind and body."

This implied there was peace until the war for the Sacred Realm, which means the battle was the first time of unrest fought after Creation. If Minish Cap's story was first, it certainly wasn't a fight over the Sacred Realm that lead the Twili/interlopers to be imprisoned. And if the Minish Cap was occurring before access to the Triforce and the Sacred Realm happened, then where is all this "peace" coming from? Vaati clearly attacked the land. Minish Cap certainly did not come before access to the Sacred Realm occurred. :|

"if tMC is not first, then the rest of the evidence points to post-WW/PH. There's no reason to believe it comes on the CT."

Explain this, if you please.

"Easter eggs are not proof unless the developers want them to mean something. For instance, the ToT from OoT-TP-LttP degrades at a steady pace and may have been intended as such. Just because some book in a library says "Triumph Forks" with no backing evidence or explanation does not make it definitive timeline evidence."

This is completely your fabrication. There is nothing, and I mean nothing, out there that proves Nintendo doesn't want easter eggs in the canon. This is why I posted the definition. Things are either canon or they're not. And canon things actually happened in the fictional universe in question.

Please, just disregard the Lens of Truth and Mask of Truth's design. They aren't of Sheikah build, oh no. It's just an easter egg.

I might soon just regard everything you say as some kind of trolling scheme. You are not Nintendo, you cannot tell me something they put in the game has no significance.

"the manga has the seal, does it not?"

No.

Sahaqiel

Edited 22 Apr 2009 by Sahaqiel (see edit history)

[Teto 2609]

Please don't turn this into a flame war, because I think that's where it's heading.

Edited 22 Apr 2009 by Rain (see edit history)

[Slagr 0]

For the love of God, just answer the puppying question!

Let me ask again, slowly. Where is your evidence? And by evidence I mean the evidence here.

What is the evidence?

Do you understand now? Or need I repeat myself?

you're not understanding...

tMC can only be first or after WW. It can be after TP for many of the same reasons as it can be first, but it creates problems being after TP, such as locations changing named for no reason and the like.

Edited 22 Apr 2009 by Slagr (see edit history)