Homosexuality & Christians

[PrimaGaga 1025]

Sahaqiel, a Christian is simply one who follows and worships Jesus Christ. They don't need a pre-set list of rules.

Gael, I have a friend who is gay AND Christian AND has pre-martial sex, but I still consider him 100% Christian. The Bible is also against masturbation but the VAST majority of teenagers (especially males) masturbate. That includes Christians and non Christians. This thread started out really great, but now I realize that you are just full of yourself.

[Kimmy 0]

LL, he is just sensitive about things like being called a fag. =/

Everyone, be civil. I apparently can't edit posts here, so I'd like you to all be nice so I don't have to delete any.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

Jesus was a Jew, though, and as such, followed the Jewish faith, which does have a preset list of rules.

He also created new policies, which were added in the Bible.

You can't really just say you are a follower of X person. If you follow something, it means that you either take your time to be physically near something, or that you practice/believe the same things as something. If you don't practice/believe the same things as X noun-person, or you're not physically close at all times, I don't really think you can say you follow them.

Sahaqiel

[PrimaGaga 1025]

But Jesus' whole motto was "I'll forgive you." You can have sex, and Jesus will forgive you. You are gonna sin, you can't avoid that, but Jesus is gonna forgive you.

[Gael 1]

I never meant to sound full of my self, proud, or anything like that. I just knew that there were homosexual people on this forum and I wanted to let them know that true Christians don't hate you. I never said I was perfect or that I knew everything. I'm 21 freaking years old, of course I don't know everything.

And also, I never said someone who has sex outside of marriage doesn't have morals. Where did you get that idea? Athiestic people and agnostic people have morals, they just don't believe that those morals are guidelines given to us from God. That doesn't mean they are soulless, corrupt people with no morals.

And honestly, you don't think I know there are Christians out there who have sex outside of marriage? Of course they will be forgiven. But it's still wrong according to the Bible. They want to have sex, and they know Jesus will forgive them, so they do it anyway. That doesn't really sit well with me, but it's their life, not mine.

All I wanted to do with this thread was be kind. I'm sorry if I offended or annoyed anyone.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

But Jesus' whole motto was "I'll forgive you." You can have sex, and Jesus will forgive you. You are gonna sin, you can't avoid that, but Jesus is gonna forgive you.

Yeah, but there are still rules that are there. It's not like Christianity is a hodgepodge of freedom, with Jesus being the really forgiving parent that lets their kid get away with anything, and if it is, then Christians can't really complain about any wrongdoing in the world, because there technically isn't anything that is not unforgivable.

Also, sex being a moral issue is a religious thing. Morals can be anything, but I think we can agree there are things that are universally immoral, like murder, rape, or stealing. Even then, morals are a set of perspectives and opinions unique to every person.

Sex before marriage, I wouldn't think, is really a universal moral issue, and is primarily to keep people together when they have kids. I think it's annoying when people glorify sex and don't function in relationships without it, but that's just because I place importance in relationships, idk.

And yeah, I think you're overreacting to Gael's posts.

Like discrimination against homosexuals, premarital sex seems to be a mostly religious issue.

There aren't any rules against homosexuality or premarital sex when you factor out religion. Not just Christianity, but religion in general.

Sahaqiel

[Kaffles 17]

well, you did say that usually non-Christians are okay with premarital sex

and I was saying that wasn't true, because that's off an assumption that non-Christrians don't have anything to fear. Not having anything to fear --> no morals, or less morals.

One of the reasons why I became disenchanted with Christianity was the amount of hypocrisy in the "Christians" I knew. Maybe we just live in totally different worlds but, a lot of the time when I meet preppy sluts that sleep around all the time they also claim to be Christian. Or bigots that hate on gays, jews, etc.

I don't think there's anything wrong with following a faith, but I don't think it necessarily makes you a good person either. Imo, having character or morals =/= being religious.

There are religious people who have character, and nonreligious people who don't have morals. But like Figurehead said, it's naïve to say there's nothing(or very little) in between.

[Gael 1]

Well....all I was trying to say with the follow-up post was that I don't believe sex outside of marriage is alright, and that I support legalizing gay marriage. And I don't doubt that I sound naive sometimes. I've lived most of my life with my nose in a book.

But can someone please tell my why I sound smug, full of myself, or like I'm bragging? I never said "I don't have sex outside of marriage, so I'm so holy and whatnot" or "Christians are better than everyone else, and so am I" or anything like that. This thread isn't about me! Can someone tell me what I said or did wrong, please?

[Teto 2609]

@Figurehead: Oh you. So silly.

[Kaffles 17]

Sex before marriage, I wouldn't think, is really a universal moral issue, and is primarily to keep people together when they have kids. I think it's annoying when people glorify sex and don't function in relationships without it, but that's just because I place importance in relationships, idk.

I agree with most of what you said except for this. I think it's plausible to think that pre-marital sex is immoral (almost)universally.

If the goal of a relationship is to stay together, is the goal also to get married? After you're married you're not supposed to sleep around with other people, because there is jealousy and betrayal. Or even in a non-marriage situation, people still have jealousy/anger towards cheating. That's why cheating is immoral.

If you take it one step farther, it's not that much of a stretch to be jealous of your spouse's previous sexual partners.

I get that it's a little more round about than more obvious morals like not killing people, but I think there's still a connection there.

idk, I think relationships are really important too, but I don't think that's the only reason as to why pre-marital sex would be bad.

[Chase 390]

The only difference between Christians and Non-Christians is Jesus. Otherwise, you still have almost perfect people, good people, marginally good people, okay people, bad people, and really bad people. That doesn't change. Jesus is the only perfect person. No one else can claim that. Every single Christian who calls you out on anything has more than likely done it or something like it in the past. The whole point of Christianity isn't to judge everyone else, anyway. We call each other out because we love each other and want the best for each other, not because we hate or are disgusted by others. Everyone seems to miss that point. Everyone always forgets their own stupid puppyed up life just so they can look down on others. Forgive and love. Judge not lest you be judged.

Do what you want in life. You don't have to answer to me. The only one you'll have to answer to is God, and what he says will go regardless of how you feel about it. You can change your life accordingly, or not, and you will still be judged. The best advice I can give to you is to model yourself after Christ and constantly and consistently forgive and love people. Give your life for someone you love. Give up some pleasures to help someone else. And don't judge others. Believing in Jesus and trying to become a better person is all you can do, really.

Not saying I'm any better at it than anyone else.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

If you want to be together forever, getting married is just sort of a formal declaration. I view it as another tool of religion, mostly, which is one reason I think premarital sex isn't an issue.

Marriage is glorified almost as much as sex is. Supposedly, it's supposed to be the happiest moment in your life. You get proposed to with an expensive ring, you get an expensive dress, you invite a bunch of mostly unwilling people to watch you get some expensive ceremony. When I think about the ceremony of modern weddings, the people don't even become important. They could be mannequins, but it would still be a wedding, there would still be an afterparty, and someone would still be profiting from it.

I think that pure, simple relationships are better than marriages, because nothing really changes when you're married, other than that you're legally bound, and most of the time, religiously bound. "'Til death do you part"? I think if I wanted to stay together with someone forever, that I would make it apparent with the memories we create, not with a tradition that just puts more steps and pressure in the way. With the hype of marriage, I think more people say "I do" than are really meant to.

I only look down on premarital sex when the participants put their bodies before their real emotions and give them out without confirming with their experiences how long their future will last.

Or maybe I'm also being naive. I assume that people will find those who are perfect for them within their lifetime.

Then again, people shouldn't settle for anyone other than the one that is best for them. Accept no substitutes, etc.

Man, I digressed.

Anyway, the point of all that was pretty much me saying that marriage is becoming shallower and shallower, and was unnecessary to begin with, so I don't think it's a universal issue, and is probably mostly tied in with faith and money. Not that there can't be a marriage with true intentions, but sex is just an act. It's an act that can cloud judgment, but it can cloud judgment before or after marriage, so w/e.

Sahaqiel

[Chase 390]

Depends on what you mean by wrong. It's definitely not natural. The only holes you can fill can't give you kids and you're always gonna be looked at strangely by straight couples. God hasn't said much about it, and Jesus doesn't really mention it much. Like I said before, do what you want. Just don't expect God to be all "It's cool, bro" when you get to heaven. Treat everything you do with caution and humility.

[Chase 390]

I'm smarter than a wolf, but yeah I guess I can't say the same for everybody.

[Sahaqiel 1232]

People don't have mechanisms that allow you to cut your hair, but we do that anyway. It's p. unnatural. In contrast, we were given a mouth and a mind that can lie, and we do so. So, lying and cutting your hair. Lying is more natural than cutting your hair, but is somehow less moral?

We also have like a million products that are the product of people meddling with nature, but they're all at our convenience and we'd probably hate for them to be gone.

And why, exactly would people get punished for something that wasn't outlined clearly? I think that's BS. I wouldn't want to get punished by God because he mentioned something about polycotton and I didn't get the memo.

Also, the above comment strikes me as really offensive in implying that homosexuals are as intelligent as forest wildlife.

Sahaqiel