Homosexuality & Christians

[Teto 2609]

They can't choose their feelings, Shadowknight, but they can choose whether or not to act on them.

And why should we act against our nature?

Because acting against your nature I guess could be called unnatural.

And so is acting on our nature unnatural apparently, so we haven't got a lot of options here. Might as well be happy while we're being 'unnatural'.

[Cascade 741]

I hate the words natural and unnatural. They're terrible arguments

[Teto 2609]

I hate the words natural and unnatural. They're terrible arguments

Me too :<

But I already wrote about that, and Lionheart didn't reply for some reason.

[Jareddude 62]

Silves, Cascade, being gay is natural for us. Natural can have different meanings depending on the person. Unnatural is just a word for people that are mean and want to rain on peoples parades.

[Teto 2609]

Silves, Cascade, being gay is natural for us. Natural can have different meanings depending on the person. Unnatural is just a word for people that are mean and want to rain on peoples parades.

No it's not.

[Chase 390]

I'm not telling you what to do. Figure it out for yourself.

It's in my nature to have sex, but I'm trying to avoid it until marriage.

[Teto 2609]

What I'm asking is why you think we should act against our nature.

[Chase 390]

Because our nature is sin. We naturally drift toward it. It takes actual effort to avoid sin, and most people don't want to put in the effort and just go along with everything their body wants to do. And not everyone's the same, so you have different levels of sin and different situations, but overall everyone is a victim of it. Do you ever feel like something is wrong, but you do it anyway? That's our nature overpowering our will.

[Teto 2609]

Oh right, sin. That old thing. I don't believe in it, so I couldn't possibly relate to your way of thinking. And I'm not about to try and convince you that there's no such thing as sin because I have as much evidence against it that you do for it existing; none.

Sin's just god's scoreboard for everybody on earth, and if you fall into the negatives, you're going to go to Hell. That's how I see it. Nice idea really. Good comparison when fighting against atheist's taunt that "you sinned once you're going to hell". Not that it's anywhere in the Bible but if I was ever to make up something to put in there, that would be it.

[Chase 390]

I have evidence for sin's existence, just not proof. I do things that I don't want to do. If I were in complete control of my body, then that wouldn't happen. Some kind of force is working against me from the inside. Whether you want to call it "sin" or not, my free will only goes so far.

If you're talking about sin and Christianity, then you're off a bit. Sin is not God's scoreboard, and having more sin than good will not get you sent to hell. Christianity believes that we are entirely reliant on Jesus, regardless of how much sin we produce. He's the key to heaven, not actions. I just choose to try not to sin out of love, not out of obligation. I owe him that much and so much more, assuming he's going to do what he said he would. And I believe he will.

[PrimaGaga 1025]

I think Jesus is a pretty cool dude.

[Teto 2609]

I have evidence for sin's existence, just not proof. I do things that I don't want to do. If I were in complete control of my body, then that wouldn't happen. Some kind of force is working against me from the inside. Whether you want to call it "sin" or not, my free will only goes so far.

I would call it human nature, but that's just me. I want to kill this fly that's been buzzing around here for hours, but I'm stopping myself because I know that personal comfort isn't a good enough reason to kill something.

If you're talking about sin and Christianity, then you're off a bit. Sin is not God's scoreboard, and having more sin than good will not get you sent to hell. Christianity believes that we are entirely reliant on Jesus, regardless of how much sin we produce. He's the key to heaven, not actions. I just choose to try not to sin out of love, not out of obligation. I owe him that much and so much more, assuming he's going to do what he said he would. And I believe he will.

So wait, I'm confused. Sin has nothing to do with getting into heaven? And being nice is just a thank you to Jesus?

Answer this because honestly I'm interested, and to be honest I don't really know a whole lot about Christianity to really be arguing against it. So it's okay if I just ask some questions?

[PrimaGaga 1025]

I heard this argument once, but I donno how good it is. Here goes:

People don't need to be good if they have Jesus. They try to be good because they wanna show their appreciation. Like if you are a sports fan. Wearing your team's colors isn't gonna make them win. So wearing the colors is like being good for Jesus. It's shows he has fans and unites people under a common cause. I unno, that's just what I once heard. It was explained much better and I probably butchered it. Haha.

[Chase 390]

Yeah, ask away. Sin used to be a reason to send someone to hell. God had no other choice, because he told Adam and Eve that if they disobeyed him, they would die. And they did. So, sin entered the world. God can't stand sin. He absolutely hates it. And even if you sin one time, that automatically makes you not good enough to get to heaven. God noticed this. He knew that, even though the law was good, people couldn't follow the law because of sin and so the law meant death for people. Sure, most people can follow the "do not kill," but what about all the holy days? And the constant rules? No one can be perfect. There was no one that could live up to what God wanted. So, in an act of love, God sent Jesus with the idea that he would die in place of everyone else, and since he was blameless he would rise from the dead and hold the power to raise anyone he wanted with him. Jesus, by dying on the cross, represented a death of the flesh. He took God's punishment of death in sin on his shoulders, even though he did no wrong. God accepted this as a sacrifice, an eternal sacrifice. Jesus then rose from the dead 3 days later. The resurrection is the most important aspect of Christianity. Without it, Christianity means nothing. It amounts to nothing, and I'm wasting my time. Jesus conquered death, and holds the keys to life and death. God, through Jesus' sacrifice, is no longer angry with us. He no longer holds sin over our heads. Thanks to Jesus, we are no longer bound by the law. And when we die, Jesus can bring us into life with him. He conquered death, after all. All that is required of you is faith. To suspend your disbelief, put aside your doubts, and accept that which you don't understand.

[PrimaGaga 1025]

Yea, what Lionheart said. I think that's pretty cool.